The periodic need to reboot a roon server is getting a bit out of hand

The periodic need to reboot a roon server is getting a bit out of hand. Running Linux (Debian 12) dedicated to roon (on one of the NUC models that was listed as supported) with OS/App on NVMe and music files on local SSD (periodically refreshed by rsync push from NAS). It sees periodic OS/package updates, along with a reboot to ensure stable state. Seems that if nothing is played for a day (sometimes a couple days), the next time it’s used - it’s showing an error message about the database needs to be restored. Comically (or tragically) enough, finally decided to try restoring the database instead of simply rebooting. What was the result of that effort? No improvement and having every client bark about the server having ‘changed’. Have found that if Roon is left streaming music to a destination, that this will prolong the time between these events - but doesn’t stop them from happening.

This is becoming rather synonymous with other issues: the metadata improver which seems to remain in a constant “paused” state -or- after a reboot, searches from the main page fail for an hour+ with “Can’t connect to roon search” (simple “exact match” or “and” logic searches should be available at all times for common fields: artist, album, genre, album artist, year, track). Makes for a less than stellar experience. Rather problematic when a guest asks to hear something on the system which is impacted by this and their question is basically: Given everything, why do you still use something that doesn’t ‘simply just work’ all the time? While trying to go “cloud” may be interesting [for some], it’s not helpful if the product’s behavior is erratic or non-viable for long periods.

When first trying roon (<v1.8), was not only amazed but felt that roon was an ‘end all, be all’ for any music collection. It seemingly had everything (even if a bit quirky for some aspects, but could easily look past those given everything else) and was rock solid. It’s because of that experience that issues over the past couple of years have been given some latitude. Can one make an argument for the Roon ROCK Server/Nucleus - sure. However when last checked it did not support [configurable] NTP for time sync, nor rsync [not pull, but push via module for automation] for replicating data to it - so that media is from local disk. By avoiding disk sharing, it means when maintenance/service is performed on the NAS there is no interruption to music listening (SSD/NVMe is sufficiently cheap to enjoy this option).

However, the latitude gleaned from such a positive [previous] experience grows thin given TCO with a sense of approaching more years with agitations vs. simply enjoying. At this point, every time music listening session now needs to be “scheduled”. 1-2 hours prior, check to see if Roon server needs to be rebooted and to provide sufficient time for the search on the main page to become “usable” again. Sadly, the ability to listen to local music is now more consistently available via Apple Music for immediate listening pleasure. Starting to question alternatives. It’s a very simple ROI: if the pleasure of listening to music is derived as expected, then the TCO is justified.

As others point out, when something starts to feel like there’s too much agitation vs. simply being able to enjoy it - it will eventually be replaced. Fancy features, ‘cloud’, remote access, may be great, but those become immaterial if local media is not available. When others experience these issues after they transitioned to it as a result one’s praise for the product, it simply doesn’t bode well and may diminish consideration(s) of future recommendations.

Hoping that roon will address such issues in the near future.

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This happens when your server is up BEFORE your internet connection

I have a ROCK/NUC , I live in Johannesburg so our summer is fraught with thunderstorms so at the slightest hint of a big crack, I unplug everything (I lost mega bucks of kit one bad storm ago).

When I restore power my NUC restarts automatically BUT the internet takes a few minutes to connect (no idea why) . So I see the Metadata Improver error .

I need to move the NUC but haven’t done it yet so that I can start it once the internet is good

I know some people are unhappy with restarts but think of it as turning the amp on !!

My ISP’s cable modem takes a few minutes to start up and connect . While my own ASUS router takes about 20 seconds.

I’ve setup an LMDE 6 Linux server last week with Roon. No restarts required so far.

Fair point. However, in this situation the Internet is available (unless the upstream experiences an outage, which is quite rare). I don’t recall seeing the metadata improver having ‘run’ in quite a long time. At least in terms of the metadata improver, when you click on the top right status (to the left of the bookmarks icon), that is where “Metadata Improver: Paused” is constantly shown.

However, when doing a ‘grep’ on the logs (data obscured), the logs show:
https://api.roonlabs.net/metadatatext/1/blobs?objectId=&type=review&sourceLangs=:en,Wikipedia:en,:en,:en&tidal=max returned after 238 ms, status code: 200, request body size: 0 B

“tidal” being in the line is likely not pertaining to Tidal (Tidal isn’t used, only local media). But it appears that the query occurs and a “200” response is received. The log is littered with those kinds of messages.

There’s also some log entries of:
Warn: [Broker:Media] [updatemetadata] error in updatemetadata: Result[Status=Unauthorized]

Also:
https://metadataserver.roonlabs.net/md/4/updatemetadata?uid= ← these lines are quite long with a litany of “&metadata=” repetitions. These lines don’t show any resultant status.

Thoughts?

If you reboot the Roon Server it will go away, its a connection to the Roon Cloud Services missing

This is my NUC after an auto restart (the NUC is set to restart on power resume in the BIOS as it was in an awkward place to do manually.)

No internet connection during startup. So no Roon Cloud, No Tidal.

This is after a manual restart of the Roon Server software from the Web Admin page.

image

All clear nothing to show. Normal operation.

It’s not a computer reboot so much as the Roon Server Software restart it should then be good until the next shutdown . I do it daily at the moment due to storms.

So within a day or so of when this thread was started, the Roon App required a re-auth to Roon and since then - have not had to reboot the Roon server. Initially, the metadata improver seemed to work. So that is delightfully positive! Did wait a bit before responding to see how things would progress. Did do a maintenance run and rebooted - have yet to see the metadata in a non-paused state. (It’s been a couple days since the reboot).

While being extremely happy about things being ‘back to working’, am concerned as to what changed. Periodically: OS updates via “apt update && apt upgrade && apt autoremove” followed by a reboot for good measure - outside of having to reboot because Roon would have a database issue (as noted previously). At first blush, perhaps the folks at Roon may have spotted and/or set a flag to cause the Roon server to force a re-auth? - solving the issue. If that’s the case, great but would be helpful to know if that was case vs. not knowing if that’s how things came to be ironed out. If it is, then it may be worth considering some sort of button being added to the ‘profile’ on the website where users could force a re-auth if all other avenues don’t seem to solve an issue. Provides another avenue to try to ‘self resolve’ an issue. Software development (especially as the code base becomes larger with more complex/encompassing functionality) may experience an odd [seemingly random] quirk where a forced re-sync for something otherwise expected may solve an issue. For analogy, seems akin to a satellite DVR where sometimes it can may go ‘out of sync’ and you log into the vendor’s website to have a ‘refresh’ pushed to your DVR (effectively re-authorizes the DVR). Not something that you’d do with any frequency but does solve some less common issues.