The problems at Hegel are in line with most hi-fi vendors

All ok. You like the looks. I don’t. Both should be ok. I don’t feel insulted by your choice and you could do as well.

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I am not at all insulted , everything chill :sunglasses:

And I easily can admit I was that close buying a H160 a good while ago. They do sound (that may be politically incorrect) terrific.

If you do not like how it looks but like the sound, just use it as an poweramp.
Hide it where you cannot see it, done! :woozy_face:

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May be a future option. :speak_no_evil:

Currently fully invested in the Buchardt ecosystem (evil class-D, DP4500 amp and passive speakers).

:rofl: He’s a really funny man.

So manufacturer lying about the DP figures stated?

Not what I am saying. The damping factor internally in the amp might be up to 4000. Or even ridiculously 10k.
But there is no cable in the world that wont limit that to 300-500.

Alan Shaw, designer of Harbeth speakers, has said the Hegel has the lowest gain stage distortion of any amp he has ever measured and he uses Hegel to demo Harbeth reference monitors.

That statement is from before Alan blew the Hegel and had difficulty in getting it repaired by the manufacturer. For the records, I own two pairs of Harbeth speakers.

The simplicity of the two control knobs and their haptics is were Hegel shines. I don’t have much expectations on amp design as this isn’t a challenge since the late 1970s. Integrated DACs are not a challenge since the mid 1990s. Taking down power consumption was one of the last challenges and I am happy to see class-d allow energy friendly amps and smaller form factors without compromising sound quality.

I expect that an amp lasts long at the price level of Hegel. An amplifier with sound characteristics is a failure and shouldn’t be on the market. An amp is not supposed to sound. For this, you have an EQ and speakers. Or you can leverage analog tape, vinyl, tubes - those add sound characteristics at limited frequency spectrums.

Hegel promised AirPlay 2 for the H120. This was another purchase criteria and is the reason I jumped on this forum thread.

okay, interesting. but i take it alan thought it was great while it lasted.

I would concur with you that Hegel really mess up with the software delivery portion be it Airplay or Roon. It tooks them years not months and till now Roon is not implemented yet.

I would say Hegel underestimated Roon implementation for their amp.

I came from Naim, whenever they update something they will have a proper release note.

For Hegel, there is non, whenever there is update on my H590 it always a wild guess on what exactly is the update is for?

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That is annoying me to, getting an update for my H390 and no way to find out what has been fixed or added.

What really would be a great update is that i can disable an input so that i do not have to go up and down over unused ones ( i use only two) … @Anders_Ertzeid

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I completely understand that frustration. Fortunately one of my colleagues made an update to our support website just recently. It is not very complex but it does give an idea ow what has been going on. Here is the example for the H390:
https://support.hegel.com/product-articles/firmware-h390#version-p5107-17

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But that is theory, and is not achievable.
Components used will always have tolerances and specific characteristics.
A designer needs to compensate and eliminate, making compromises.

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Also for the H120. Nice!

Thanks @Anders_Ertzeid

(PS. Any news on the ROON update??)

Absolutely true, Peter. The question in my mind is whether those inevitable differences are significant?

My understanding of amplifiers was greatly helped by this article in which @Archimago describes a number of hypothetical amplifiers by their characteristics:

UltraAudio Linear Amp = 120x / -90dB / 21.5V
SuperFi HyperTube = 15x / -45dB / Insufficient
FleaWatt Amp = 25x / -74dB / 3.2V
ShoutOut MegaPower PA = 80x / -53dB / 33.5V
GuruMeditation Ideal Wire 250W Amp = 300x / -100dB / 31.5V

The three values given for each are respectively the Average Damping Factor, the Distortion Factor (see the discussion for the definition; he says a value of say -75dB is probably good enough for the average ambient environment), and the Power Factor, “the number of volts an amplifier can deliver at the top end before it hits 0.1% THD+N (-60dB) into 4Ω”.

Since then, he’s measured a number of real-world amplifiers, which provide some data points.

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Lyngdorf TDAI 3400.

Check out the HUG forum. Alan might have done demo of Harbeth with a Hegel but his class list for pure amplification didn’t have a hegel product on last time I checked. He tends to promote studio gear for pure and clean power.

He also speaks in tongues at the best of times if you gather a range of his comments on amplifiers over the years. He’s actually banned discussion of amplifiers amongst his followers on HUG apart from 3 threads. You can only post in one of those if you can back it up with measurements.

I do own a pair of Harbeths. I’m also a heathen and drive them with KT88 power tubes at 40 wpc in triode / 72 wpc ultra linear.

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