If it is (which is extremely unlikely) and it got better by bi-wiring, then you simply used very incompatible cables previously. I.e., bi-wiring didn’t really make it better but by chance fixed a serious issue that you had to begin with
That article doesn’t make any sense because this is simply wrong:
However with bi-wiring you will be running two sets of loudspeaker cables from your amplifier to each of your speakers. One pair which carries the high frequencies (tweeters) and the other will carry low frequencies (woofer) from the amp. By having this set up, you are forcing the tweeter currents and the woofer currents to run in separate cables.
Being so wrong, it might make me reluctant to trust CA with anything, but the end of the article makes me believe that they simply don’t care at all for bi-wiring and let the intern write that part
This bears quoting again because it was just revealed that your “understanding” was copied and pasted verbatim from a questionable blog post. That is not understanding at all. In such case, maybe you should listen to actual understanding from knowledgeable respondents Kal, Boris, Graeme, et al.
AJ
Here’s the crossover for the speakers I’m currently building:
If we look at the bass section on the left, medium and high frequency current is attenuated by the inductor L3011, then shunted via C3021. Current associated with MF and HF is still passing throught the cable, but bypassing the bass driver.
In the midrange section, high and low frequencies are being bypassed from the driver, yet still flowing through the cable.
In the tweeter section, bass and middrange frequencies are being shunted via the cable.
The currents associated with the undesired frequencies for each driver are still flowing through the cable that feeds each driver. The mathematics get fairly complicated but the long and short of it is that bi-wiring makes no audible difference.
If bi-wiring makes a “night and day” difference in sound, then something is amiss or broken…
There’s no voodoo here. Just basic physics and mathematics.
My understanding comes from what i read on the official page of CA and not a blog as you say… and therefore i don’t find anything wrong by copy pasting… i am not in an high school exam as far as i know… so i wonder how much can anyone trust you… and you did well not to mention yourself among the knowledgeable members, even though your intention is false modesty…
All what i was trying to do in this thread is sharing my own findings… so there is no need to be cynical…
Just to be clear, i am not praising CA in anyway as i don’t trust them with their hardware at all. The number of issues i had with every piece of equipment i purchased from them is beyond anyone can bear. Everything i purchased from them was either replaced or repaired. I started with the CX series and switched to the 851 series and it was even worse.
And yet you believed their obviously incorrect blog post.
Actually, yes, it is rather funny BS, since in the end they do acknowledge that just having a decent single-wired cable and good crossover in the speaker is better use of money and resources.
The first half though is complete and utter nonsense. A cable doesn’t “know” what signal it is supposed to carry. And being connected to the same terminal on the amp, both wires will carry full range signal. All it does, basically, is moving the jumper from “right between input terminals” to “right at the output terminal”.
It might slightly change electrical characteristics of the cable, but unless the single-wired one was woefully deficient it would not make any difference. If you were bi-amping, then yes, sure, it could make a difference. But of course you’d just be running two single-wire cables for that anyway…
I do believe you and appreciate the fact that it’s a scientifically sustained truth…
There might be many reasons to what i experienced… i can’t pinpoint what it could be… the only thing i can one day when i have time is to re-bridge the speakers and use single wiring again to see what happens…
Thank you very much for your technical approach… will let you know when i do this exercise.
If not the speaker terminal jumpers, maybe polarity. Peter could have wired the loudspeakers out of phase by mistake. Either horizontally out of phase between L/R loudspeakers before or after bi-wiring. And/or vertically out of phase between terminals after bi-wiring.
AJ
My question would be, why many speakers have 2 set of poles, and why the upper pole is labeled HF (high frequency) and the lower pole LF (low F)?
No, not an exam. But parroting bad information because you do not know the difference between good and bad information on a given topic is a problem.
AJ
They have 2 sets because it’s a fad that looks like serious gear to gullible people and it’s cheap to do, so even though most people will never bi-wire they may be falsely impressed by the option. And why run the risk of not selling to people who fell into the trap.
It’s just like so many other marketing tricks. Why did family cars have “spoilers” in the eighties or “diffusers” now? Not because they do anything of value.
They are labeled HF and LF because typically one of them is connected to the high-pass and one to the low-pass part of the crossover. Or they might be connected together anyway on the inside and nobody would ever know
This explains maybe very high end speakers having 1 set of poles… very wierd for the others…
Also, HF and LF ports do give you the option to bi-amp as well, which might do something - though I’d still simply buy one better amp rather than two worse ones
Maybe if you read the humble replies of other members you learn something regarding your style… or maybe you don’t…. Have a good night for now!
Why? Because it sells. Rather the same reason Ford Mustangs and others used to have fake air vents in the hood. Does not do anything, but looks “sporty” and “performance” and everything. Purely marketing.
HF vs. LF markings… at best, one set of terminals is actually wired to the HF side of the crossover, and another to the LF one. That’s why you need to use jumpers if connecting a single wire.
And yes, unless speakers are explicitly made for bi- (or tri- etc.) amping, like B&W Nautilus or Magico M9 (two separate channels per speaker required), really high-end ones have just one set of terminals. E.g. Magico M6. Don’t think anyone would accuse $185K/pair speakers of being insufficiently high-end
As a somewhat more down to earth example, I have a pair of Mordaunt-Short bookshelf speakers. They have bi-wiring terminals, to make them look more “serious” (well, they are nice little speakers, for what they cost but not anything super fancy; and of course there’s no noticeable difference when wired single or bi- with a similar cable). On the other hand rather more upscale M&K ones I also have, which are priced at something like 10x each vs. a pair of Mordaunt-Shorts, they have single-wire terminals and sound very nice that way.
Unfortunately, a lot of things in the audio hobby are driven by marketing, outdated myths, and outright BS rather than solid data.
As for what you were hearing, for one thing Roon’s DSP and effects of bi–wiring should be completely orthogonal and independent of each other. But without poking a finger at your speakers, it does very much sound as if at least one of the jumpers wasn’t making proper contact. Assuming the speakers have standard 5-way binding posts, and you’re using banans (might work with spades, too, I guess) would be to strip two long enough pieces of heavy gauge wire, use that to connect HF and LF terminals using the wire hole, then connect just one of the two wires to either set of terminals (make sure free wires do not short, or your amp will be super unhappy)…
PS As a nitpick, the Cambridge Audio article is from their blog. Although I would have expected better from CA…
It sells additional cables.
I think this is the crux of it. Two sets of cables and an opportunity to upsell you a more expensive cable too.
The 851W has 2 switches, one for Stereo/mono mode and one for bi-amp/Bridge mode. Does it make sense to use the switch configuration as mono mode and bi-amp mode as long as i have twin cables already running to the speakers? Would this drive the HF and LF frequencies separately?
In the manual it shows the use of bi-amp / mono modes only when using 2 amps.