Umbrage on the rise?

There’s a lot of people taking umbrage lately about many aspects of Roon.

Why is this?

.sjb

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Many people do not like change, and Roon has changed a lot recently. Also, I’d think many people are stuck at home and using it a lot more, so issues that may not have surfaced with lighter use may become a problem with heavy use. Internet use is also way up and many ISPs are not able to handle the extra traffic well, leading to e.g. DNS issues - you probably don’t notice that browsing CNN but Roon/Tidal combination is pretty picky about it. Finally, people with too much time on their hands!

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A couple of possible reasons spring to mind:

  • There’s a lot more people using Roon and only one Forum;
  • There are more established users to grow increasingly impatient about priorities, particularly features they feel don’t live up to the marketing.

I’d make a couple of suggestions:

  • Don’t take frustrations out on other users, whether they are criticising or defending Roon. The Admins have spoken to the Mods about civility on the Forum and will be publishing revised guidelines in the near future;
  • Criticism of Roon will continue to have a higher threshold than other users, but keep in mind that if you want to achieve change, rather than simply vent, then the criticism has to be persuasive. The most persuasive posts are those that explain what the user wants to do and how the software fails to deliver it. The least persuasive are those that refer to earlier complaints in some gnostic fashion without linking. No one is going to search through your old posts to find out what the hell you are talking about; repeat it or link it.

It helps to keep in mind that Roon really are trying to deliver the best product they can to us. Constructive feedback achieves more than throwing the toys out of the crib, however satisfying that may be.

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Umbrage, Great name for a band

Quick Google - ah, it would appear Greg Maddox got there first :rofl:

I’ve noticed a fantastic new sub-genre of post, where the user basically weaponises the fact they don’t have have any issues with Roon, and like a special-forces vegan, absolutely must tell you about it. Often with no context, for good measure.

What could be the purpose of doing this? To belittle the user who is experiencing issues? Because they don’t believe them? To assert superiority?

No no, they will say. “I’m just providing balance”.

Sure you are, mate.

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I know, it’s strange. It like the answer to “sh1t, someone’s just stolen my car” is to say, “well my car is fine and no one has ever even attempted to steal it”.

.sjb

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Haha yes, exactly that. In fact for good measure, start a thread to espouse that fact, apropos of absolutely nothing. :+1:

I suspect @Rockhound has it Various lockdowns give people not so much spare time but time at home to increase their exposure to Roon

I am retired so not too much has changed in a time sense .

The other aspect is aversion to change and a perceived need to be negative. [Moderated]

Roon desenters are the same , must say something

Why don’t people realize a positive suggestion stands a much better chance of action than a toxic moan :smiling_imp:

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My first thought was that this comment reminds me of my wife just lately. Everything I say is wrong and she says the opposite. I just stop talking now. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

It makes me scratch my head, many users obviously come here for support issues or to give feedback about issues they have with what is an expensive subscription piece of software. That is one of the main reasons for the forum.

What I don’t understand are threads saying “just updated to Roon version whatever with no issues and it works perfectly”. Can you image if all of Roon’s user base that have no issues posted in threads saying this?

I know its nice for the Roon Team to hear positive feedback, I mean if all we listen to is negative feedback all the time its hard not to become jaded or even depressed but it doesn’t really push the product forward does it?

I guess I am one of these with umbrage. They quite plainly released a broken product with 1.8. Its a backwards step in many ways with loss of functionality, too many bugs, poor UI design choices . The server side end of the cloud infrastructure can’t cope with what’s going on and the forum server is useless. Add this up with support being mostly absent, left to a few poor souls to try and manage and it all looks a bit suspicious that things are not what they where at Roon towers. We are all paying for a premium experience and we are just not getting one. No way on earth 1.8 should have made light of day in its current form. For a company that claim UX is so important and why Roon Ready programme takes so bloody long to approve anything this version quite frankly makes a mockery of this SP.

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I’ve asked some of them why they do this, and the response I got more than once (but not universally) was that if posters laid out their complaints about their situation, their issue, etc, they wouldn’t have said anything. But the because the complaints are global and universal (“1.8 is a massive failure!”, or “2021 Ford models are a thief magnet!”), they feel like they need to counter that attitude.

It sucks. Both sides of the coin are just toxic.

It’s just human nature, and it should not be a surprise to anyone. The media, politics, etc… it’s full of this escalation. Internet forums are also famous for this, easily creating a soapbox for venting to the loudest.

Look above at @CrystalGipsy’s post… Even in this discussion about the causes of the umbrage, he can’t help but vent on his soapbox.

There is a way to answer your question without inflammatory hyperbole that includes both stuff he can’t possibly know about (“server-side end of the cloud infrastructure can’t cope with what’s going on”) and incorrect statements (“Roon Ready programme takes so bloody long”), yet he is heated (“makes a mockery”) and swearing (“bloody”).

The opposite side of the coin is equally annoying. Beyond demonstrating that the problem is not universal, those posts do little more than establish that. They do, however, annoy anyone who is feeling the pain.

Anyway, we are about to release a stricter set of forum rules to help reduce both types of this toxic behavior.

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Good lord.

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I’m not sure what that “good lord” is about… do you find our current rules too strict?

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I think people are wound up a bit tight and should chill out a bit. Stricter forum rules will just mean you end up with an ever decreasing, self-selecting group of people agreeing with each other. If that’s what you want, then I suppose it’s a win.

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Personally I would be unhappy if people aren’t allowed to vent their frustrations. I don’t want to see ad hominem attacks (or digressions into political posturing!), but there’s nothing wrong with a robust exchange.

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Robust exchanges have nothing to do with venting or soapboxing. Think about a social environment like a party or a bar. There is a way to have a robust exchange in a manner that encourages you to keep going, and one that makes you want to walk away.

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You don’t create that environment by having rules that will have people worried that a stray fart will mean curtains. Trust me, you’ll create a staid, artificial environment with a list of rules that would embarrass a Victorian teahouse. The place is uptight enough as it is.

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I’m open to suggestions… you can’t soapbox in a bar or you’ll get thrown out. It’s not a written rule, it’s just a rule.

I disagree. A robust exchange can involve venting and/or soap boxing. Sometimes we need to get things off our chest (negative outburst) in order to move on to constructive discourse (positive). Forum rules that are too tight can leave people incredibly frustrated.

Have you ever been to an English pub? Soap boxes are provided on the way in.

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I grew up in Swindon, New Town as they call it is just one pub after another, there are mounted police patrolling on the weekend at night and it earned the name “Gaza Strip”. It’s not a nice place to be. Perhaps the local pub in quaint English villages are still a nice place to go but the last time I went out for an evening with friends I was literally scared of being glassed. Try getting on your soapbox at one of these pubs and the reaction will be brutal.

This forum used to be a pretty nice place to hang out, there were always a few rude individuals with absolutely no empathy for others but now many threads turn into little more than a bar room brawl.

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