Regarding putting the core on a new machine: I have always tried to keep complex (cpu-intensive) tasks separate and I tried to give each component in the chain its own job to do. Then I bought the best component for each job that I could afford / justify.
My music files are stored on a large NAS.
My streamer and DAC are integrated in my amplifier (breaking the separation rule, but the amp is top of the line).
My Roon Core is the only thing running on its own machine. I went for a NUC (small fanless computer) with a Core i7 Intel cpu, 16GB ram and 256 GB SSD. This machine is ONLY running Roon ROCK.
It has plenty of headroom to do any kind of library management or file conversion etc.
This NUC can connect directly to a USB DAC (like your Denafrips) and it is also connected to the LAN (for library access and for feeding the streamer via ethernet).
Your mileage may vary, but if you are considering a new machine for your Core, I would consider this as one of my options.
Thanks for your thoughts. Iām a bit torn to be honest. Canāt help thinking that an M1 Mac mini would have other uses and cope well with Roon at the same time. Also, Iām invested in my Innuos which has been fantastic for ripping my music collection. Just need to get the usb output to my dad working now. Still not completely given up on the old Mac mini. Interested to see how it performs once relocated but Iām not holding much hope.
Howās your Devialet Expert Pro? Looks like a nice piece.
Iām quite happy. The only thing that is missing, is the ability to play higher-res DSD files natively.
The DAC maxes out at DSD64 and I do have quite a few DSD128 and DSD256 files. But it does reproduce those in DSD64 also and they sound great. I also like the fact that I can load a speaker-specific response curve in the config file (in my case: Marten Django XL) and finally, I like that I can designate one of the inputs for Phono and load the right EQ curve for the cartridge being used.
The only single-box amplifier that I know of today, capable of
being Roon Ready (receive Roon via thernet
have full integrated amp functions with enough output power
have a DAC able to play DSD256 natively
Is the Boulder 866 (another step up financially from my Expert Pro 440 CI).
Going back to your conundrum for new Hardware: I am fairly confident your existing Mac Mini will not be able to handle it. Roon does like resources. The new Mac Mini M1 should be a good solution and has a similar price point to a good fanless NUC. That way you wouldnāt need to change anything else in the chain (assuming there are no network gremlins to deal with).
Thanks @Patrick_Van_Osta again for your input. I also enjoyed hearing about your setup. I think Iām going to order a new Mac Mini but still use my Zen Mini as a Roon endpoint, as I invested in the LPSU for it so I expect it will sound better that way.
Apart from my question regarding optimal setup for my system, I am about to purchase an M1 Mac Mini to run Roon Core. Is Roon 1.8 compatible with the M1 macs? In addition, I plan to hang an external drive from the Mac Mini containing Audio media files (including Hi-Res DSD files). What read speed do I need to ensure smooth operation?
Many thanks
@GKern
I saw on another post that you are using pretty much the same Mac Mini as me and say you are not running into performance issues? Have you tried playing back Hi-Res audio (24/1921 or DSD64)?
I would be very interested to know as I am about to pull the trigger on an M1 Mac Mini to run my Roon Core. Thanks
Funny, I was literally typing out a response. I would not give up on the Mac Mini just yet. Yes, it is well under the recommended spec, but that does not mean it is unable to do what you need.
There is nothing wrong with my old Mac Mini running as a Roon Core and playing DSD or 24/192 files etc. The problem was trying to play these files using the Zen Mini as a Roon endpoint, utilising itās coax digital output to the Denafrips DAC. This Roon did not seem to like at all. Nor trying to play DSD/Hi-Res files utilising the Zenās internal DAC. Roon canāt cope with that either (or perhaps this is where it requires more CPU power to up/downsample, whatever?).
What I did not realise was that I needed to enable a new Audio device in Roonās Settings. Once I had enabled the Denafrips Ares II DAC (Roon had already detected as a new Audio endpoint in the background), everything was absolutely fine! DSD/FLAC 24/192 whatever is no problem, and the old 2009 Mac Mini running Yosemite is zippy and responsive, no issues at all @GKern.
Now I need to return the new M1 Mac Mini to Apple as soon as it arrives tomorrow! I was kind of looking forward to it, but happy to save the Ā£800 towards some better speakers one day.
Thanks for all the input and suggestions/encouragement, but it wasnāt a networking issue or an āunder specā Roon Core issue either.
Glad that you got it resolved! Saying that your core is not powerful enough is a very easy answer, but imagine what you what had felt if you had bought the new Mac Mini and it was no betterā¦
Yes, well, I have actually purchased a new M1 Mac Mini which has just arrived this morning. Iām going to send it right back. Thank goodness I spotted the setup error before installing it!!
Iām quite disappointed with Roon Support. They are not very responsive and quick to blame the core machine, kind of lazy.
The Innuos was setup correctly and my support request to Innuos had them asking me to switch out USB cables and deactivate itās Roon server settings to see if it recognised my DAC. They then asked me to output directly to the DAC from my laptop using Roon. This is when I discovered Roon identifying the DAC as an endpoint in and of itself.
It wasnāt obvious that I shouldāve enabled the DAC as a separate Roon endpoint and selected that instead of the Zen Mini during playback to utilise the Zen Mini properly. Now it works great and sounds amazing. Better than going through my laptopās USB output directly to the DAC.
I guess the clue is in the name: āEndPointā. As the endpoint is where the analog output signal originates from. Only obvious to me now.
Nearly a very costly setup error on my part. Im glad I spotted your post about using the same old Mac mini as me!
You have 14 days to return the Macā¦apple return policy assuming you got from an apple store or online apple storeā¦try itā¦nothing to lose!
1.1x processing speed is too slow to be stable. 1.4x and above is adequate, more than 2x is pretty safe. Remember itās a cumulative value and less is worse. Dsd is very demanding to up or down sample and if you do anything to a dsd file dsp wise that has an additional effect.
Roonās processing needs will only get more demanding over time as new features are added too.
Having gone through a very similar exercise recently (with a serious amount of failure and frustration and time which could have been better spent listening to music), I would gently caution against the approach of ātrying the new Mac Mini and then migrating back to the old one before sending the new one backā.
I did the same thing with 2 NUCs instead of Mac Minis and thatās 2 days of my life I can never get back. I had a Core i5 fanless NUC and had the opportunity to upgrade to a new core i7 fanless NUC. That migration process itself was not without issues, but I got the new NUC up and running and stable. Then I put the old NUC up for sale, so I thought I would un-authorize the new one and put the old one back in the system, to demo to the buyer. Yikes, did I live to regret that. I got every error under the sun in both directions (when I reinstalled the old NUC and again when I finally removed it and put the new NUC back in).
My advice: if your old Mac Mini is running and stable, leave well enough aloneā¦
When the time comes to actually replace it, for whatever reason, thatās the time you can play with migrating the old one out and the new one in, doing it only onceā¦
Itās your system and your decision, but I know what I would do in your shoesā¦
Yikes !!
Too late!! As you correctly guessed, I was too tempted to use the 14 days to see how Roon core runs on the new M1 Mac.
I have switched between the 2 cores with ease and have made sure the backup location for the new Core is in a different place. If I revert to the old Mac Mini Roon Core I wonāt bother migrating back. Iāll just use the old core as it is (in effect rollback) and not worry about play counts, new playlists etc.
Hi
Yes. The iPhone and iPad and windows laptop apps now work instantaneously. There is no delay at all. Much better than before.
First I was using an old windows system which was extremely slow, but I kind of got used to it. Recently I migrated to the old Mac Mini, which to be honest, was absolutely fine with minimal delay in navigation/playback. Pretty quick. No SSD.
The speed now is delightful. Could be hard to go back. But is that alone worth shelling out Ā£700? To me not.
Iām planning on sticking with the new Mac for a week to see if there are any other benefits as Iāve not sad and listened to some music properly since setting it up.
One thing I noticed this morning though, was that while the app on my phone is zippy, there are no Audio devices available, just a āManage Audio Devices message which takes me to the Audio settings page which is blank. Strange.
Just read plenty of threads with a similar issue running Roon Core on iMac/Mac Mini with recent MacOS versions (not 10.10 Yosemite).
Problem is the Audio devices disappear even though the Mac Core is running and everything else on the Roon remote seems fine. Itās not until you access/wake the screen on the Mac Core (waking the actual monitor or even a virtual screen share in the case of a Mac Mini), that they will all immediately reappear again.
It looks like this behaviour can be caused by another Roon Core running on the network at the same time. I closed the core on my old Mac mini to see if it solved the issue but that didnāt work. It may be todo with the M1 Mac Mini sleeping the screen but Iāve never experienced this with Roon core running on other Mac or windows machines.
!!