USB Cables Redux - Personal Experience

Thank you, Peter, for taking the time to give such a detailed and comprehensive response to what was, admittedly, an off-the-cuff and somewhat provocative post on my part. It sounds like you certainly have spent quite a lot of time at the bench and have accumulated a wealth of experience. I once worked in the retail end of high-end audio and I will freely admit that there is a lot of snake oil to be had. On the other hand, there are also quite a few quality products with solid research behind them. I think that we agree on many points, the point of my post was that yes, a USB cable can make a sonic difference. I’m tired of reading all of the technical arguments stating that essentially data packets are data packets and are either transmitted or not and that any USB cable that meets the technical specifications must have no effect on the end sonic result. Anyone who has done the comparison in a system that is able to resolve the differences will know that this is not true. Your comment that you don’t want to use a data stream higher than 96K because of problems with distortion would tend, in my mind, to support this notion. I have also heard supposed ‘high end’ USB cables that sound worse than stock cables. In the end, one must vote with one’s dollars, as you have. I’m happy that you have found musical bliss with a very cost-effective set-up. My wife would be happier if I could do the same. You are right about DACS; a better DAC will make more of a difference than any cable. My other DACs are a Bryston BDA-3 (for HDMI video sources) and a Brinkmann Nyquist Mk II (for music). While both are excellent DACs, the Vivaldi is in an entirely different class. I find that what the Vivaldi does for music is nothing short of extraordinary. Mind you, it had better be, when one considers the price. The change wrought by the Cardas Hi-Speed USB cable over the already better Cardas USB cable was to a much lesser degree but nonetheless quite significant, at a fraction of the cost of a new DAC. So yes, one cannot make a silk purse out a sow’s ear, if your DAC is not up to snuff then a better cable is not going to make that much of a difference. And no, I have no intention of spending $15K on a USB cable.

Sorry Patrck, I cannot recommend you a power conditioner. I still have my Audio Agile clear 3F. And I have no idea, what’s available today in the market.

One advice I can give you that is completely free. Sparate your power cables and your signal cables. Do not have them together in parallel. Do not plug in your devices in different outlets in the house. Put them all on the same extension. It has to do with potential equalisation. Phase out your devcies.

You can also do a simple check: Play a track with silence. Turn on the listening level. Now you should not hear anything coming out of your speakers. If you hear something way above your normal listening level, don’t care. If you have a hiss or a hum on your listening level, you have to investigate.

_\// Peter

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Thank you, Peter, i’ll do exactly that

Genuinely, you would be amazed at the psychoacoustic effects of expectation bias. I’m not even attempting to be patronising here, just genuinely stating that tests have shown that expectation bias can lead to perception of changes that are materially true to the person experiencing them.

As it’s a USB cable and any difference is technically impossible, its the only real explanation.

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Yes, ‘Expectation Bias’ has crossed my mind, and I haven’t ruled it out in what I hear. The only way to confirm my opinion would be to do a blind test. Which I haven’t done.
However, after going ‘to and fro’ from various cables, I am convinced (or maybe deluded?) that the Chord sounds better.
I too believe that ‘bits are bits’, but I suspect better shielding in a USB cable may confer sonic advantages.

Everyone likes HiFI porn.

You could post a picture of your system here, if your have it (meaning a picture of the system you described, not referring to the system itself).

Well, I’ve been thinking of posting some photos but I also didn’t want to come across as being too vain. I built this system over the past 18 years as my budget (and wife) would allow. The whole point is the enjoyment of music for myself and my family. This is my kid’s favourite room and we’ve spent many happy hours there exploring music, singing and dancing. My four-year old is a master at Roon and has rather an extensive playlist of his own, as does his six year old sister. My 18 month old toddler just loves to dance. As you can surmise, my children are growing up with a deep appreciation of music. Of course, they don’t need a system like this to do so. But, I’d rather spend my money on something I can share with my family instead of an expensive sports car or other such singular pursuits. So, on that note, I did post a couple of photos on the other thread, go have a look.

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https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148763.0

Oh, my! “In reality, there is no such thing as a digital signal.” Someone should tell him that, in reality, there is no such thing as a power amp, only electrical circuits.

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In reality, there are no such things as things.:wink:

:joy: in reality there is no reality !

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Because you can’t measure a difference that doesn’t exist. It’s not in the interests of any cable manufacturers to show us the measurements on USB cables. For good reason, because any certified USB cable will perform just as well as any other.

Not nearly that simple. I own the Curious USB (not the latest Evolved version) and have spent time with Audioquest Diamond, Callisto, and Shunyata Alpha. None of these cables do everything well. Curious doesn’t have the broader tonal scale that the others do but it has better resolution than any of them, providing both air and space and dynamics, and in particular micro-dynamics. The result is that Curious is musically involving, drawing the listener into the sound in a way the others don’t (on a high quality resolving system). Be careful that tonality stays neutral, evaluating the tonal scale is part of evaluating a cable.

”Because you can’t measure a difference that doesn’t exist.”
out of curiosity are you an audio electronics engineer ie you have evidence that there are no differences or is that just an opinion…?

Im ducking out of this again… I must learn not to engage!

if y’all wanna waste your money on USB cables, please help yourselves. It’s a fools game.

Apparently even in 2020 we still live in a world where subjective opinion and anecdote are considered the same thing as truth. That’s probably why Trump and Johnson do so well. None of their followers need evidence either. They’re happy to believe what they’re told.

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Since you addressed, then deleted, a post to me, I’ll make just one comment. You are expressing the fact that you don’t know anything about electronics design. It sounds logical to you to say that packets delivered accurately over an asynchronous USB cable should be the end of the issue. Any analog/digital design engineer can explain the issues in noise pick-up by the cable, noise conveyed from the source to sink by the cable, non-linear distortion arising from the cable, and the ways that such noise and distortion affect the USB receiver in the sink, as well as the affect of such noise on the clock at the sink which is driving packet transfer. These are old issues in digital interfaces and they are, and have been measured. As far as audibility, the differences in the cables I cited are not minor, they are readily audible if you have any real, objective listening experience. We can go into double blinds if you like.

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A great read, if only for the descriptions.

Thanks for the laugh.

:rofl:

BTW - The AQ Forest cable, which I happen to have in my system, scored as high as the Light Harmonic Lightspeed at ten times the price., which should tell any reasonable person all they need to know about these cable manufacturers.

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