USB direct or via. a reclocker?

[Rik_Carter]

Ok. So tomorrow I receive my microRendu upgraded to v1.4 board. This is going to be a watershed moment in my audiophile experience. Why? Because this is my last experiment with such devices. This will determine, for me, whether the whole field of USB cables/reclockers/Ethernet cables really do make a difference. I am feeling strangely sceptical even though I have previously expressed the opinion that the microRendu made a qualitative difference in my set up. However, after reading around - more critically - about USB reclockers, etc. I am ready to be objective and to reject. At the moment I have a bog standard USB cable direct from the ROCK to my Mytek. Now that I’ve added an external 12v linear PSU to the Mytek this is the best sound I’ve had. The microRendu will have to be doing something special to better this. More news at the weekend.

[Dick_Vliek]

Being objective is pretty hard

[Rik_Carter]

Yep. All I can say for now is that I am going with the hypothesis that the rendu makes no difference.

[dabassgoesboomboom]

Is that with an Uptone LPS-1 and Uptone USPCB?

[Scott_Fletcher]

For reasons related to my kefs pre Roon integration I removed an sms200 from my office chord 2qute/ tannoy xt8f’s to temporarily run into the ls50’s.
Now plugged directly into a qnap. Found myself thinking a couple of days ago blimey this sounds better than usual… oops!

[Rik_Carter]

I will use a 7v/10a output from a HDPlex 200w LPSU.

[dabassgoesboomboom]

Thanks Rik.

And an Uptone USPCB on the mRendu’s output? Or a USB cable?

Also, are you comparing this with a ROCK’s USB port output directly connected to your Mytek DAC?

So your ROCK is inside your listening room, close to your DAC and amps?

[Rik_Carter]

@dabassgoesboomboom

And an Uptone USPCB on the mRendu’s output? Or a USB cable?

Also, are you comparing this with a ROCK’s USB port output directly connected to your Mytek DAC?

So your ROCK is inside your listening room, close to your DAC?

Using the stock USB hard adapter supplied with the rendu to connect from rendu into the Mytek.

Will be comparing to a stock USB cable from USB out from the ROCK (Intel i5 NUC in a fanless Akasa Plato X case) to the Mytek.

Yes, the ROCK is under my desk on a DIY isolation stand about 50cm from my DAC (which is also on its own IsoAcoustics stand). The amps are 1m away.

[dabassgoesboomboom]

One of the really cool things about the mRendu and the small audio endpoints philosophy in general, is it allows you to have the powerful computer (ROCK in this case) outside the listening room.

If you’re able to try this (without too much pain because I know sometimes setting up multiroom networking can be a pain), I highly recommend trying it. So does Roon. And so does Sonore.

I also recommend a better USB cable - nothing too expensive.

The Supra USB cable isn’t too expensive and is USB 2.0 High Speed certified (it has the High Speed Certified logo on the box).

Sometimes the free stock cables that come with gear don’t meet USB 2.0 spec. And quite often the super expensive audiophile USB cables don’t meet USB 2.0 spec either. The Supra does and won’t cost an arm and a leg.

Even this is cheaper and High Speed Certified:

3 ft USB 2.0 Certified A to B Cable M/M | USB 2.0 Cables | StarTech.com

Anyway i hope you’re testing goes well!

[Rik_Carter]

@dabassgoesboomboom

One of the really cool things about the mRendu and the small audio endpoints philosophy in general, is it allows you to have the powerful computer (ROCK in this case) outside the listening room.

Yep. Only thing is that my man cave is the quietest electrical room in the house as its on a separate circuit from the main house (with the plethora of domestic appliances on all day) so I think that outweighs any benefits from having the ROCK in a separate room.

@dabassgoesboomboom

I also recommend a better USB cable - nothing too expensive.

I think this is the bit that I don’t want to change for this little experiment. I want to know if the microRendu can improve on a £10 USB cable…

[dabassgoesboomboom]

@Rik_Carter

I think this is the bit that I don’t want to change for this little experiment. I want to know if the microRendu can improve on a £10 USB cable…

The StarTech I linked above is $6.99 and meets USB 2.0 spec.

If you had ROCK in a separate room it would be isolated (by ethernet) anyway. That way the mRendu would be on the cleaner circuit of your man cave.

Only suggestions but I’m definitely no expert. Just picked up on recommendations of the experts like Brian and John Swenson etc.

[Rik_Carter]

@dabassgoesboomboom

If you had ROCK in a separate room it would be isolated (by ethernet) anyway. That way the mRendu would be on the cleaner circuit of your man cave.

Cool. The only connection to the ROCK (apart from the 15v LPSU supply) is ethernet

And it is connected to a LPSU powered switch.

I do have a pair of TP-Link FMC’s which I could connect in between the switch and the rendu to totally isolate it from the rest of the ethernet network (but then aren’t I only just adding another source of power supply noise with the downstream FMC?? even if it has its own linear 5v supply??).

Tomorrow should be interesting…

[dabassgoesboomboom]

@Rik_Carter

Cool. The only connection to the ROCK (apart from the 15v LPSU supply) is ethernet

Exactly, but you mentioned you prefer it on the same circuit as your HiFi gear. So having it on a different circuit in another room is fine, since it will be isolated by ethernet.

The FMC route is something to consider (I’ve done it with improvements) but I wouldn’t be surprised if the bigger improvement came from moving ROCK outside your listening room.

See below posts for reasons:

Roon Client/Server - Best Practice?

is having the media server away from the listening room really necessary, if we are using completely silent builds tailor-made to be in the listening room (such as the CAPS machines mentioned)? Electromagnetic and radio-frequency interference are the kind of “noise” I’m talking about, not the audible kind. We worked with Meridian for many years on these issues when building out the Sooloos product line, since the original Sooloos devices were fanless PCs in pretty boxes. They were fairly wel…

and

Computer Noise - Affect on Audio Quality

It could be there? How would I test for noise? Subjectively: ABX test between Computer->DAC and Computer->Network->Bridge->DAC. Objectively: Plug Computer->DAC and Computer->Network->Bridge->DAC into a scope with plenty of dynamic range, play the usual test signals, and analyze/understand the differences. The first one tells you if the difference matters to you personally. If you iterate the test over a population, you can determine whether it makes a difference to anyone. The second one t…

and

Roon Client/Server - Best Practice?

You really want Roon on the PC, and the DAC somewhere else. I know the “Computer Audiophiles” may not like that idea, but the computer is a pretty electrically noisy place. In an ideal situation, you’d want your DAC to be networked and far away, but if you can’t do that, you’d want a bridge of some sort. PS Audio makes one (that will run RoonSpeakers soon!), and you can also make one with RaspberryPi or maybe even an older Android phone. If it were me, I’d build kickass Roon library managing PC…

[Rik_Carter]

Hmmm… not come across this line of argument before. Brian’s comments are ‘anecdotal’ based on his experience with Meridian (nowt wrong with that!) but that was over 10 years ago. I have a tiny, low powered computer (i.e. ROCK on an Intel NUC) in a fanless case with bluetooth/wifi physically disabled running the absolute minimal level of processing to serve up music files to the DAC (no DSP) and this supplied with its own dedicated 15v linear power supply. So, feasibly the only electrical noise must be coming from the CPU, RAM, USB interface, ethernet interface. Exactly how much RF/EMI radiation would these pump out???

I’m not dismissing the claims. I’m just not convinced by them. Has anyone audibly noticed a change in SQ by having their ROCK/Roon server in a different room from their DAC?

And what do we do about other kit in the same room as the DAC (which, presumably, is in the listening room) e.g. my Macbook (which, incidentally, is on an ethernet-only connection)?

An interesting claim but I’m struggling a bit with this one…

[dabassgoesboomboom]

@Rik_Carter

Hmmm… not come across this line of argument before.

Sonore recommend the same thing and my DirectStream DAC’s designer (Ted Smith) also recommends the same thing. So it’s not just Brian.

Anyway it costs very little to try it. Looking forward to your mRendu tests and observations!

[Rik_Carter]

The v1.4 microRendu is installed and playing some music on low. Gonna give it a few hours, get the kids to bed, then will do some critical listening.

[nquery]

I am reading through the above and unclear as to what exactly you are testing. Are you testing:

a) separate lightweight network endpoint vs direct connection to roon rock?
or
b) the mRendu’s ability as a USB reclocker/cleaner-upper?

I only ask this because it’s pretty well known that using any separate SBC based network endpoint like a mRendu/SMS-200, rPi, allo, etc will make a difference in sound. So you should expect the mRendu to sound better than direct Rock connection, regardless of it’s ability on the USB output side of things …

[Rik_Carter]

Well I have to have it connected as a networked endpoint as that is the only option. Hence I am interested in whether improved SQ playing via. ROCK->microRendu->Brooklyn compared to ROCK->USB direct->Mytek.

Contrary to opinion I am taking the view that there will be no improvement unless proven otherwise

[nquery]

ok. i would then think that your answer will be dependent upon the Booklyn’s ability to clean up the USB input. I don’t know much about the Brooklyn’s USB input.

I am interested in getting the most recent Schiit Gumby as they claim that their new Gen 5 USB card is now on par with SPDIF and takes care of all of the USB gremlins. If that’s the case I can stick a cheap endpoint like the usBridge, or even direct connect, in front of it and not worry about the USB chain/reclocking/noise nonsense anymore.

[Dick_Vliek]

The kids have better ears!