Setup 1. Couple of Macs here - main one M3 MBP (still on Sonoma) using WiFi only & an old MBP with Big Sur as a server for Internet, local files & hopefully Roon server - currently on WiFi only
I understand that Roon server needs fixed Ethernet to work properly
2. Two broadband links - an existing line with router out by front door & newly installed line close by in office ie the new router is within reach via Ethernet cable
Plan
Use old Big Sur MBP - with 2 network connections. WiFi to old broadband router for Internet access & fixed Ethernet cable to new broadband router for local file server including Roon server. Will this work?
I.E. Old broadband router - continue as Internet access for Big Sur MacBook
New broadband router to support ROON server and local file server on fixed Ethernet
Roon clients on M3 MacBook, iPhone & Android via WiFi on new router & screen share into the Big Sur MBP for management etc
Describe your network setup
Setup
Two broadband links - an existing line with an EE Smart Hub branded router out by front door.
Use this router for Internet access via WiFi only.
&
A newly installed line with a BT Smarthub 3 branded close by in office. ie the new BT router is within reach via Ethernet cable.
Use this router with fixed Ethernet & Wifi connections.
Hi @r_t,
Thanks for reaching out to ask about this. If I am understanding your plan correctly there is one problem. There is currently no way to tell Roon which network interface to prefer. So with two active on the computer running the server Roon could lock onto the wrong one and have suboptimal performance.
Please let me know if I understood your plan correctly.
Yes the plan is to have WiFi for Internet on Router 1 - which I think is straightforward to achieve on MacOS with set service order.
I.e. by setting WiFi to first / top network service (via R1) and then having Ethernet as the next in list and using that interface to access local files only (via R2) - if I’ve understood what I’ve read correctly - this is a supported mode of operation on MacOS & over many versions.
But if as you say there’s no way to manually set or for Roon Server to default to the local LAN, on R2 for Roon client connectivity - then it won’t work. As the Roon clients on the M3 MacBook, iPhone and Android will only be on the R2 network.
Maybe what I could (need to?) do is on each reboot of MacOS / Roon server app restart, is initially have only the R2 Ethernet connected, with WiFi set inactive or disconnected. Then Roon server would use the Ethernet, establish connectivity to the client(s), do any updates necessary etc. Then bring the R1 WiFi back online and make it the main service.
Though as I type that it feels like even if it did work, it could be more trouble than its worth - depends on how often I reboot (usually not often) and how often Roon would need to be restarted independently of reboot.
There might be other situations like leaving & returning home with the iPhone - it might be that there the Roon client server connectivity would fail to re-establish.
That would work but I agree that it could be pretty burdensome dependign on how often you restart your Roon server.
To be clear ethernet is just preferred not required. We do have plenty of users who use Wi-Fi with their Roon install. The only issue is if there’s interference or a weak signal. So you could try running Roon on the Wi-Fi connection to see if it functions properly that way. If it does you can avoid this whole network interface issue.
Yes I see you’re right re macOS but since there are 2 routers involved at the other end there’s no support there afaics. Maybe something like a couple of Cisco routers would work, but these are basic ISP routers.
The routers are irrelevant. Bind creates a single interface, e.g., bond0, that merges the interfaces currently in use for each network. Whether such a solution would solve the issue of Roon not knowing what interface to use, IDK–however, bond0 will manage both interfaces.
For example, if I have two physical interfaces, e.g., enp7s0 (Ethernet) and wlp3s0 (Wi-Fi) I could bind these as follows:
sudo su
ip link add bond0 type bond mode balance-rr
ip link set enp7s0 down
ip link set wlp3s0 down
ip link set enp7s0 master bond0
ip link set wlp3s0 master bond0
ip link set enp7s0 up
ip link set wlp3s0 up
ip link set bond0 up
These changes aren’t persistent–you’d need to create a shell script (so, I’d do this using nmcli, but Network Manager is unique to certain Linux distributions.)
Of course, macOS may use different commands/nomenclature.
A hardware solution would add a new load balancing router, e.g., TP-Link ER605. However, in my experience you’ll still need the BT (and probably EE) routers in the mix to perform WAN login, so these would need to be setup for DMZ as they don’t offer modem mode–I’d also turn off all features handled by the new router. Each DMZ connection would connect to the WAN ports on the new router.
Help me understand why you have two internet connections (broadband links). Is this for redundancy or to increase bandwidth by load balancing across the two connections?
In either case, these goals are best met by deploying a single router that has multiple WAN interfaces rather than multiple routers. Here’s a link from Ubiquiti that describes how these features work with their UniFi products:
This design is far better than attempting to configure each networked device in your house to utilize your two broadband links in some reasonable way.
Also, Roon’s device discovery protocols assume that Server, Audio Devices and Controls are all on the same subnet:
Multiple Subnets are not supported. All devices must be in the same IP range.
Some context on what you are hoping to gain with such a complicated network topology would be helpful. However, I would urge you to consider simplifying your network design by consolidating your multiple broadband connections behind a single router that has the necessary smarts to manage them properly. By doing so, you’ll spend less time troubleshooting and more time listening to music.
As @David_Snyder has noted above, Roon requires all devices—your server, remotes, and audio endpoints—to be on the same subnet to ensure proper discovery and communication. In a setup with multiple routers or network connections, devices may end up on separate subnets, which can prevent them from seeing each other.
To maintain full Roon functionality, we recommend configuring your network so that all Roon-related devices share the same subnet.
If you need assistance configuring your network, we suggest reaching out to your router manufacturer or IT professional, as network setups beyond a standard single-subnet configuration fall outside our scope of support.
We do have a space on community, our Tinkering category, where others may be able to assist further!
Thanks for providing that Linux sample config. Suspect macOS is similar but no doubt subtly different. Food for thought re the addition of a LB router - my thinking is at this stage I won’t look at add more hardware. May come back to this in the future though.
Yes I didn’t explain the reasoning clearly. It’s not by choice, rather by circumstance. A bit more detail -
The ‘old broadband’ router is fixed physically where it is and so isn’t accessible by physical Ethernet except via Ethernet over mains. Wifi signal is a bit patchy at times to this router due to distance/ walls etc. This will continue to be used for general internet including downloads to the old MBP running effectively as a server.
The ‘office broadband’ is new and physically located close enough for both ethernet cable and good wifi. This will be used solely for work via VPN and Roon on Local LAN - meeting the single subnet requirement that you mention. I don’t anticipate Roon software updates would cause an issue over this link - though that’s possible as I haven’t actually asked the question. Someone once told me that it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission
So I’m looking at the old MBP ‘server’ running Roon server -
Ethernet attached to the ‘office broadband’ router for Roon subnet connectivity
and
Wifi attached to the ‘old broadband’ router for general server duty
This will be the only device connecting to both networks.
Clearly it’s this aspiration of a single device / 2 networks that causing the complexity here. I appreciate that complexity’s straightforwardly removed, by separating functionality and adding a new device for Roon server instead.
A base Mac mini or a small form factor PC running Linux / Windows would likely suffice - if I have to do that then that’s what I’ll do, but I won’t be able to for a while.
An additional router as per mjw’s suggestion isn’t something I’m keen to investigate right now & replacing the 2 x existing routers with a single device isn’t an option - as I cant interfere with the ‘old broadband’ set up.
Hopefully that clear things up a bit and sorry for lack of clarity to all those contributing - Daniel, mjw, yourself and Ben below - vm appreciated.
Yes I think I’d understood that but maybe not clearly until it was called out thank you.
Hopefully as you’ve seen from my reply above, Roon would be on a single subnet via the new office router, but with one device that’s connected to another subnet as well.
So nothing to be gained by contacting the 2 router manufacturers involved, but I appreciate the point about there being another category that may also help.
I think what I need to do from here - is to find some time to set all of this up and simply see how (if…) it works. Assuming a positive outcome then whether any ‘wrinkles’ are acceptable.
Sorry suspect its a bit confusing without a diagram.
The server is being considered as dual purpose as it’s the only pc available currently to me to add Roon to. ie it’s to support both Internet to old broadband router and Roon to new office router. Both purposes are valid to me.
In fact Internet via the old broadband is running now and is fine. The patchy Wifi comment I made is relating to previous posts elsewhere that have suggested that Wifii that isn’t totally solid potentially gives poor performance with Roon server. I appreciate that Daniel has said above it’s a supported option.
It’s looking at adding Roon to this existing set up, so I can restart using it - that’s driven this query.
The old MBP is near the office now. The old broadband router is in the hall near the front door where the cable comes in - hence the Wifi connectivity to it. It cant be ceased or moved as its in use.
Space is not an issue near the new office router, so either the old MBP will work in ‘dual network attach mode’ or as you say adding a small form factor dedicated additional PC for Roon will work. I’d consider a Mac mini, or Linux / Windows like the device you linked to - thank you.
The new one is paid for by work and is for work only - so I won’t use it for regular Internet - download / streaming / games etc - all of that goes on the other link. Though like I said I’ll need to make an exception for Roon updates and plead ignorance if someone objects.
So totally not my business (no pun intended) but… is your work connection work-only because of security or because they don’t want to pay for incremental bandwidth or…? If it’s security, I’d be inclined to listen to them (maybe cause I had security reporting into me for a while). If bandwidth or some other reason regarding the commercials of the connection that’s wild. I dunno, feels like solving that would obviate the need to do something technically complex. If you have two networks for a reason, then keep ‘em separate. If you have two networks for no reason, then don’t have two networks (and get rid of one, or make it transparent to all of your other devices with a router that provides failover or load balancing or…). But I surely am oversimplifying.
