Why a local (pc) install?

Roon Software Discussion
1

Kinda curious why you are still going for a local install. And then one on a PC/Mac.

In these cloudy times, would it not make more sense to provide a fully cloud based service? This way you only need end points at home. Or, needing to mix in local content, NAS based.

I find it very annoying to have to turn on a pc to listen to music. My sound system and ipad should suffice.

In the past I ran a large server at home for all sorts of stuff, now most has moved into the cloud and the remainder runs on my NAS. My (now almost obsolete :)) MC200 pretty much runs as a server in the background as does my LMS on my NAS, both not needing any attention.

Swapping this for a pc that will need maintenance (in my experience those NUCs etc always need some TLC when you just want to enjoy some music/video etc.) feels like taking a step backwards. It will also add a hurdle for people to get into your service.

Understand it is hard to mix in local content from the cloud, but then why not focus on rolling out a NAS based service? Support Synology and QNAP and you have a huge user base, and can get away for all other platforms with a html5 responsive design.

2

Very simple answer… it’s all about performance, accessibility, and scaling.

In the product you mentioned, the MCx00, is a custom database “server” that is extremely optimized for performance. It’s why focus is fast, its why swim is unnoticable with your huge library, and it’s why flipping between pages is quick as well.

All of the Meridian “core” products are extremely optimized database engines, plus dedicated music streamers. You have to remember that those existed in a similar form back in 2006 (that was pre-iPhone, and when the top intel CPU was still a Pentium D). But even today, if you want to stream a 96khz/24bit stream from the cloud, or 5 of them, or serve up a good and fast browsing experience with 2000+ albums and 20k+ tracks, it is impossible from the cloud using today’s technology. It will become possible, but not in 2015 without a very clumsy experience.

Now, if you are a single unified library across all users, like Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, then it becomes a lot easier, since you are optimizing for 1 library – notice how badly the performance (speed and user experience) of Spotify degrades on your 20k local files.

I’m with you on the dislike towards the PC. I don’t like turning on the PC, I don’t like the transient nature of my laptop. I don’t like the maintenance of any general purpose machine. What I want, is a dedicated “core”. You want that core to be in the cloud, I want it local (for now).

You are right of course, but where technology sits right now, your cloud experience won’t be great – at least not for Roon’s standards. We are getting there, but we aren’t there yet. We do experiments in this area all the time. HTML5 does not meet my standards by a long shot. Even WebGL isn’t there yet.

As for the NUC needing TLC… Your MC200 is basically an older NUC inside, plus audio special sauce. It doesn’t need TLC because the operating system is custom and no one can mess it up. I have a Mac Mini at home in my rack, and it is a mess of software for video, audio, web, youtube, photos, etc… It breaks all the time because I keep messing it up. I have NUC for Roon w/ a custom OS, and it’s rock solid, like your “core” products from Meridian. This has nothing to do with the boards, it has to do with whether it’s running something general purpose or something specialized.

Roon’s strategy at launch time is to provide the DIY a solution via OSX/Windows plus the mobile OSs as “remotes”, and later, introduce the “dedicated” solution that doesn’t require TLC. We may do that ourselves, or we may partner with others to do it.

You can decide which camp you are in: DIYer or TurnKey. I personally am a DIYer, but I love the TurnKey experience.

Your question about the NAS is great – I totally disagree with HTML5, but there is no real reason a high end QNAP could not run Roon as your dedicated box. We’d just have to provide an image for it. We are open to that idea. It just not on the roadmap yet. Why don’t we focus on it? Because not everyone wants to shell out so much money for a pricey QNAP, and others want to shell out a lot more for an even less hassle solution.

3 Likes
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Hi Danny,

First off, just wanted to say thank you and mention that I am really impressed with both the responsiveness and the depth of your answers, and that on Easter :smile: .
Great to see the enthusiasm, always a good start for a (new) enterprise!

Have to confess I am in the DIY camp. My second set is a fully home build Linkwitz Pluto, with DDDAC and rhapsody pi over I2S as well as a NUC streamer (indeed, this one is rock solid). Love to tinker and I will happily dive into your DIY solution, converting my existing NUC running jriver into a Roon box.
At the same time, like yourself, at some point it is nice to switch over to the Turnkey experience (the main set). I guess one could say a typical early adopter approach, once i get bored it just needs to work :smile:

Will take your word on the current state capabilities of html5 and webgl, and concur that the cloud is not yet fully there yet for that awesome experience level. NAS angle wise: I believe lots of music (and video) lovers have one. Simply for the amount and ease of storage. They would not buy it for this solution alone, but have one already / have another reason to get one.
For that to work though it would mean at least supporting the two market leading brands, qnap and synology, to have a relevant footprint.
As for high end hassle free, I see a lot of dealers installing ie minim server at their customers for their audio streaming (as the high end front end still needs a back end). Making it hassle free for their clientele.
I would vote that a little higher on the roadmap (selfishly :wink: ).

Rgds

Bas

4

Wow, you are very much a DIYer! Your migration strategy sounds perfect as well. Exactly how I’d do it. What is your main audio setup?

Post launch, I’m sure the matter of a “RoonBox”, manufactured by Roon or by a partner, will become a very high priority item.

5

Added a signature. The MC200 is on its way out to make room… :smile:

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@danny, please consider adding support for Linux also. My music server is a dedicated set and forget pc running Linux. My only direct interaction with it is adding music and powering it on or off. I want nothing more to do with any device housing the storage and streaming logic. Interaction with the library is via tablet, phone etc.

It’s robust and the day it fails I know it’s because a hardware component has failed, not because the OS is suffering bit rot and needs to be reinstalled to restore performance to acceptable levels.

7

Agree that would be nice, even better would be packaged as a complete image you can simply install on a dedicated device. Like openelec, picoreplayer or volumio.

It would be a bit more work perhaps to do a complete package, but at the same time the support becomes (much) easier as you put everyone on the same platform.

I would see myself use a full package, but would not do a linux install and then a custom Roon install on top.

8

Installing something like Ubuntu Server or Arch Linux is a doddle these days. The app binaries wouldn’t need to be distribution specific.

9

That was my thoughts too!

10

Thinking of partitioning a 128GB m-sata drive (going into a Brix S, separate SSD for music) and put Windows Server 12 r2 on one side and a Linux OS on the other. An optimised Linux Server and headless Roon install in one package would save me making all sorts of rookie mistakes, freeing me up to move directly onto noobie mistakes.