Why aren't all your friends using Roon?

I can’t talk about relative priorities (I don’t know about them). What I can say is that Classical is by no means regarded as “done” by the devs.

I think you are correct to describe Roon as having been relatively timid in resolving conflicting metadata and projects which take a “braver” stance are under active development. Artist Equivalence issues have been a driver for such work. When those projects go live the devs will be keen to hear feedback about them and that will be important when considering wider application of such concepts.

I’m happy to see the new build includes some UI/feature improvements and additions. Thanks guys and congrats on another release.

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Most of my friends aren’t audiophiles and like the popular streaming services.

I showed it to an audiophile friend and it just wasn’t his “cup of tea”. He likes Foobar with his custom metadata and UI. All pics are scanned of actual items owned. All metadata validated as matching actual item. No “smart” additions.

All Music Guide (and other sites are accessed independently) for album info.

One zone.

Recently I saw a support request here on the forums. The first response from the Roon support team, understandbly, was asking the user to describe their “network topology” among other things. 99% of my friends would not have any idea what that is. This is another reason why my friends are not using Roon. Just too techy for the average Joe.

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The NY Times has an article up about simplified gadgetry for the non-technical, which resonates with this:

Also of note is Helm:

I think something like Helm, but for music, is a likely direction for Roon.

A post was merged into an existing topic: Roon Suddenly Not Playing to AirPlay Device (Firmware 7.6.9)

This isn’t a Roon problem though (Roon can be complex to setup when you go DIY, but not with off the shelf products). The same applies to any devices that have to communicate over a home network, whether it is between local devices or from a local device to cloud.

Some people do have really over-the-top complex segmented network topologies at home - house share or to isolate the kids or whatever. Often however it is just a cheap router stuffed in a cupboard somewhere etc probably running buggy firmware that needs to be rebooted daily.

I work for a company who produces cloud based software for home use on mobile devices and we get exactly the same kind of issues to deal with as quite simply the most common issue is down to poor wifi connectivity.

Users don’t really notice most of the time because many of the other apps they are using don’t have a user experience that is dependent as much on network connectivity - email, notifications etc tend to eventually work over poor intermittent connections. They probably never give much thought to when Netflix takes 20 second to start a stream and probably don’t notice the resolution is low etc, because quite simply they may not know any better and when they claim everything else is working - actually it isn’t.

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I am literally the only person I know that doesn’t listen to music exclusively on a mobile device. An iOS or Android device is connected to a carrier network that is very reliable and relatively fast (where I live, anyway).

Since most (again, everyone I know) are listening to compressed tracks from Spotify, et al., the cellular network is more than capable for the task. So, if Wi-Fi is having issues, the phone flips over to the cellular network.

Ultimately, however, Roon won’t attract the general populace because… no one has a library of music anymore and without that, Roon simply has no value.

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Are you serious? I’m asking because I really don’t know a single person who exclusively listens to music on a mobile device. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a living room without some kind of audio system in it…

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Besides using ear buds from the phone, the only other options I’ve seen are bluetooth speakers (again, music from the phone) and, in the case of my sister in-law, a couple of Sonos speakers. But, again, all music comes from Spotify - even in the Sonos case.

I don’t know how old you are, but I am 53. My age peers (e.g. above example of my sister-in-law) are on Spotify. My father (mid 70s) uses Pandora from an iPad to an Apple Airport Express (optical out into an amp + speakers - but, again, no digital library).

My 16 year-old daughter and my 25 year-old employee - both use Spotify with iPhones. And, they both laughed at me when I asked them if they use iTunes. Again, no digital library that they own.

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When I think about all my friends and family members, only three have an actual stereo setup in their living rooms. One is fairly major (with turntable too). One is a SONOS speaker. The other is an “all in one” small table top stereo radio that has a Squeezebox Touch connected via analog inputs. Everyone else is using mobile device (phone, pad, or laptop), at best connected to a couple of small bluetooth speakers. And only one of these three has music library (probably 20,000 CDs and countless vinyl). The others use Pandora or Spotify. And I’m not taking about young people, I’m referring to people between 50 and 65.

I wonder if there are stats on this, I don’t doubt your comment at all, iPhone and ear plugs rule

Except in the gym where earphone one up man ship rules

Mike

There are stats on this. Here is one example that shows physical media surpassing digital downloads, but both being well eclipsed by streaming. The writing on the wall for everyone to read…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2018/03/28/physical-albums-sell-significantly-better-than-digital-ones-even-today/#637d1cffb538

You can see it as high street stores shut up shop

Thanks for the link

I can count the people I know with a stereo systems on one hand these days. So many just have gone for streaming speakers or bluetooth and their phone. The younger member of my extended family ones are just listening to music through their phone speakers. Even my daughter would rather listen to music off YouTube via her phone rather than use the wireless Roon system I built for her.

Same here: I bought my daughter a one year‘s Roon licence for Xmas, I implemented everything on her system, but Spotify and YouTube seem to be of much greater attraction! When I asked her if I should prolong her licence for another year, she said she much prefers a new bike as a gift :grinning:

I would love to get a peek at Roon’s “growth plan”. Are they going to clone 60+ year old men to serve as new customers?

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I’ve posted a comment by a Harley exec before.

He was questioning the future of Harley because “there are only so many fat bearded white men.”

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Wow. That’s really a IMHO situation, isn’t it?

  1. Many, many people have local music libraries, its just NOT true to say no one has a library anymore.

  2. To say Roon has no value without a local music library is entirely your opinion. I would pay for Roon with only an integrated Tidal (or Qobuz) account, if, heaven forbid, I lost all my HDD music in a catastrophe. For me, and for MANY users, Roon offers huge value, simply in the way it deals with music tagging, display, and integration with devices around the home, etc. Extend this to a mobile arena, and it increases the value further; in fact it makes integration of streaming services even more interesting.

The line is being blurred in any case between streamed music libraries and locally stored ones, what constitutes “ownership” of music is mental. Put a library of constantly accessible online “rented” music in a format which is personalised, tagged and invested in by the user and the psychological ownership of the music becomes transferred.

Roon offers a much more interesting interface than the crappy ones offered by the streaming companies. In a world where streaming companies mostly offer the same musical content but presented differently, the human interface and UX becomes all important to entice users to choose one service over another (ahem, Roon… xmas is fast approaching… hoping for santa’s extensive UX gifting this year… :wink: )

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If you have no local library you’re asked for a double investment when switching onto roon. And this prevents people from doing so.

roon must either work as a audio output device so that poeple could play any content they like through roon (in that case the hardware investment makes sense, since they do loose nothing against what they were used to (Kodi for example).

Or roon must integrated things like Spotify, Soundcloud, Youtube and such like so that poeple have the choice to lisense roon while saving bucks for the beginning. And after a while they would likely see that it would make sense to not only have a solution being able to play in high quality while the concent they currently use isn’t up to it. And then they would licence Tidal for example.

Perhaps also a roon-lite would make sense, perhaps with a limitation in the number of possible endpoints and without features such as DSP.