Why I've quit Roon after a few years use

It also supports MP3…

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Using all the other varied software/hardware combinations the OP mentions sounds like a lot of intellectual and physical effort. Roon is not a perfect product, but it does 95% of what I could reasonably expect it to do in a simple and thoughtful way.

In other words, I get some of the OPs concerns but who has that kind of time and attention span to manage all this other stuff? Not worth it.

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@cereal_killer I think you are way off base here…

Who? As far as I see it, most of them are RoonReady/RoonTested and a handful left in active development.

You are calling 96/24 “low-fi at best”. This is ridiculous.

But I’ll go with it for a second, and ask again: Who in the super high end is sticking to UPnP? I think you are building up a false idea here… answer the question: who in the “super high-end” (or even the not-super but still high-end) is sticking to UPnP or some other non-RAAT alternative? I claim it is no one, and that UPnP is a dead man walking. Prove me wrong with just a few examples … you seem to be confident the market is full of them.

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https://spirespark.com/dlna/products

AFAICT, all of the dCS products which might conceivably do so (Bartok, Rossini, Vivaldi One and Network Bridge) do, in fact, support UPnP.

Those seem like “high-end” products to me, but perhaps I’m just part of the great unwashed.

Edit: Perhaps, by “sticking to UPnP,” you meant “fail to support RAAT” as opposed to “continue to support UPnP.”

@Tony_Casey The Krell is RoonReady.

I can’t say anything about the Mark Levinson SACD player but I can say their No. 519 was made Roon Ready via a firmware update.

Is that you cannot say or you don’t know? :shushing_face: I was just about to push the button on the 5101 before everything kicked off.

@Jacques_Distler, you’ve taken my comment out of context.

The argument from @cereal_killer was that RAAT is not getting adoption and supporting UPnP would help expand the reach the masses.

When that was rebutted, he changed his tone to say RAAT was not supported by the super high end (implying that UPnP was).

My question was in the context of that second item. Which “super high-end” manufacturers would we get by supporting UPnP?

It’s not dCS, as all the dCS products are already Roon Ready. They are one of our best Roon Ready partners, consistently going out of their way to get things right the first time around.

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I guess I misunderstood your characterization of UPnP as “a dead man walking.” That would seem to imply that manufacturers were dropping support for UPnP, which is clearly not the case.

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I’m sure you can understand, that it’s not my place to say. Manufacturers control the message about their own devices and it would be out of line for me to say something that wasn’t already public via the official channels of their marketing departments.

What I can do with certainty is show you that Mark Levinson is making high-end devices that are indeed Roon Ready. If you see a device from them that isn’t, then either there is a good reason why it’s not Roon Ready, or it’s Roon Ready status is in development.

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:smiley: . . . . . . .

I think giving the upnp capability is just a matter of respect for Roon users. I have the lifetime membership for Roon and I have one Roon ready renderer at home (Tambaqui) and … I have at least five upnp renderers that are NOT roon ready (Marantz MCR510 for my children, home cinema amplifier, Bel Canto Refstream with the excellent Engineered network card that make all world usb and so on devices worse sounding, tv decoder) and I can’t use Roon with them. So for me it’s simple, Roon give airplay capability to users but don’t want to give upnp capability: no respect for the Roon user that have different and not new renderers. And yes, the Engineered network card is a worldclass audio endpoint without Roon capability for now, and it would be a respect value to give Roon users the upnp capability, instead of staying in a dogmatic position that is an insult to money we give to use Roon software.

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Why do continue to demean other people’s experiences and to imply that they are ignorant or brainwashed? I was an early paid user of BubbleUPnP and spend years giving the developer feedback on its many flaws. I used several different UPnP/DLNA servers that also had flaws, and worked poorly with BubbleUPnP. Don’t even talk to me about the UPnP/DLNA control from Naim, Linn, and Auralic, all mediocre even though they are supposed to complement top audio gear. I finally wised up and moved to Roon, to my great advantage in time and annoyance saved. Even as an alpha tester I find Roon way more usable and more reliable than most software I interact with every day.

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Hi Fernando,

Nowhere have I demeaned other’s experiences or opinions, nor have I suggested they are ignorant or brainwashed. That’s not me within forums and certainly not out in the real world. I am totally unsure why you would make such an assumption.

I am here as a Roon user & rather happy. Is it perfect? No. Is that just my opinion? I’d suggest not, going by the vast number of threads & comments suggesting there are flaws. However, naturally, I can’t speak for others.

It seems to me that any time I suggest (politely) there are other alternatives, you jump down my throat. Whilst you may have had much experience with some of the alternatives, perhaps others do not, nor are they aware of what exists beyond Roon. Therefore, any such comments are not directed at you. In fact, they aren’t directed at anybody. Notwithstanding, perhaps some may find them useful, especially those with less experience than yourself.

And that app, in particular, has grown & is regularly updated. Your negative experience may not reflect others. Yes, it’s UPnP/DLNA , which isn’t ‘bad’ per se. It’s just not RAAT.

Again, this is your experience which I’ve never discounted or demeaned. I fully respect your experiences as just that: your experience & I’ve been listening. However, they do not speak for everybody. Please do not think I’m demeaning you here (as I’m not).

Maybe it’s my writing style, my country of origin or something else you find not to your liking. Seriously though, you’re the first person that’s ever told me I’m demeaning. I’m not a kid and more than capable of having a discussion (whether we are all in agreement or otherwise), without the need to resort to impugning the speaker.

There are plenty of threads throughout this forum that I’ve read, but do not post comments. This is for a myriad of reasons, like anybody else here. Often, it’s because I feel I lack sufficient knowledge to input positively. However, if I believe I can input positively to a discussion, then that’s what I’ve done.

We can’t all agree with each other, but we can have open and frank discussions and share experiences respectfully. I do not feel I’ve been anything other than respectful to all members.

Cheers. :smile:

Likewise, I keep using Roon in spite of its many bugs because I haven’t found anything better with the features I need…

I dont think anyone is say or has has roon isn’t the current ‘go to’ player out there but why not make it better and more universal? and all encompassing - its a lack of foresight IMHO!

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Tell me is CCA opensource or closed, what/who allowed roon ready Status you or them?

I don’t know, but I suspect the folks at Roon are doing everything they can to continue to improve their product and service as much as they can and as quickly as they can within the confines of their organization. They are a small company and need to maintain an acceptable profitabilty to stay viable.

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You seem to be getting on the defensive here!

Lets turn the question around then, as has already been stated and is fairly common knowledge that DLNA is built into nearly everything out there.

Tell me which streamer product you have so far certified as roonready doesn’t offer UPnP/DLNA ?
Do you honestly think a manufacturer (Lets take Linn for example) is going to sell a £10K+ streamer which its sole software platform for use is roon only?

I know of no streamer/player other than the Nucleus that is 100% soley dedicated to roon (not including DIY projects) …

Connecting roon via ALSA USB/HDMI is Linux based isn’t it? so you’ve used opensource code?
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture
So Stating USB/DAC roonready compatibility is almost a forgone conclusion.

Respect? I don’t think so. And you make it sound as though “giving the UPnP capability” is a simple thing to achieve. Development and ongoing support of a DLNA/UPnP implementation in Roon would almost certainly be a major drain on Roon Labs resources. One of Roon’s key strengths and technical focus is RAAT and its superiority over DLNA/UPnP. The team has made it pretty clear over the years that that will continue to be the direction. I don’t view that as “dogmatic” but “sticking to their vision”, and personally I applaud them for that.

I also have UPnP renderers from the time when I was using DLNA, but I still adopted Roon, and have found ways to incorporate them in the Roon ecosystem. I thought your Marantz MCR510 supports AirPlay - it should be possible to use that with Roon. And I don’t know what home cinema amplifier you have, but I’ve connected my ancient Denon 3808 via HDMI to my Roon Core, and Roon delivers stereo and 5.1 multichannel audio to it just fine.

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