Agree that this is wrong and we shouldn’t be looking down on people or criticising them for wanting a nice complete product.
That being said, I think there should be some question mark around the massive markup that companies are charging these people. The ire should be at the companies putting absurd markups on products, not the individuals that buy them.
Is it fair that just because you aren’t technical or just simply value time highly, you have to be gouged for $2000 ? (Mac Mini or Windows box vs nucleus).
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
107
Roon is just offering it for sale. You’re not required to buy it. Buy something else if you feel the price is too high – most of us have. Not sure how “fair” comes into it at all.
To be fair, you should also list all the issues people have with Nucleus. It’s just another computer running an OS and an app on top. And again, I’ve never advocated for a NUC w/ ROCK, even as a Nucleus replacement.
I saw that, I understand you point but I think it’ll be made in vain.
I know a lot of people, family members, friends etc that hate anything technical. By technical, I mean as much as changing a setting in their phone. That is how they see it.
While I may find that frustrating in concept, in reality that is the way they feel. It’s not for me, you or anyone else to judge or belittle them.
For some people, configuration or setup of any kind, regardless of how trivial, ruins their experience. That’s how they feel and there’s nothing wrong with that.
There’s also nothing wrong with companies building a product that people in this category will actually like. A boxed product, plug and play.
My sole complaint is the absurd markups. I really dislike companies that gouge them just because they know they’ll pay. In the case of the nucleus, I feel that a $2000 markup is ridiculous.
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
112
I think it’s fair to say that we’ve also seen users struggling with various Nucleus problems. Whether or not it’s intended to be an appliance, I think the various standard IT caveats still apply. My first VAX/780 had another computer attached to it, inside one of the cabinet doors, so that DEC could phone in and troubleshoot the main computer. Maybe Roon should consider something like that!
(But who would troubleshoot that computer’s network connection?)
Problem is, you have to do it regardless of the hardware. If those people end up using Roon, it’s probably because they got help. That’s the second option in my poll.
1 Like
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
115
Nor did I say that you did say it. You don’t have to reply to everything, you know.
For nearly 30 years I have used exclusively Linux on all machines I can control. I’m pretty ok with it.
Nevertheless I bought a non-nucleus fanless NUC and installed Rock, simply because I have seen enough dependency issues and other niggles during regular distro updates. I can obviously fix them all, but I don’t want to for my music server. Sure, I could turn off updates, but then there would inevitably come a time when Roon complains.
I have also supported other OSes, in part professionally and also mom, dad, and other family members. It’s frankly a nightmare. Suggesting that it’s not a problem for someone with no computer skills to keep Windows running without issues is simply totally misinformed.
If someone feels they don’t want to do any of that for any reason, and if it’s just because they don’t even have a separate monitor and keyboard at home to install Rock on a NUC, I don’t see any problem with buying a Nucleus. It is expensive, but you don’t just buy the hardware, either.
My position is based on my experience, not on external information. My tiny PC ran for approximately 2 years without intervention. The laptop that replaced it has been running for months without intervention. It’s unlikely that’s because of my computer skills because I haven’t used any in this particular case.
And my mom has Windows issues on her laptop every few months even though she barely ever uses it. Every so often, Microsoft pushes a major update that requires you to answer 10 questions she doesn’t understand. And if that was her music server, she wouldn’t have music until I am available to remote into it. If she had a separate machine to run Roon, she would have to buy a monitor and keyboard for it just for that.
That’s not counting things like Microsoft once pushing an update that rendered the machine unbootable, and another time pushing an update that took out the GUI. Or my mom not understanding that just because one window overlaps another window, this doesn’t mean that the app window on top has become a part of the bottom window.
Generally, someone who isn’t computer illiterate doesn’t even notice in my experience the small things that they occasionally have to do, which are insurmountable obstacles for the illiterate.
And just because your machine has run 6 months or two years without issue, doesn’t mean it won’t require intervention 6 months from now. Which, for the illiterate, is a killer even thought it’s just a command to run or a checkbox to click for you and me. Or Roon may require Windows 12 in a few years, or whatever
Major updates are not that frequent and are usually optional. Every time an update required my input, it was initiated by me as far as I remember. Regardless, if you think Windows is not friendly enough, you still have Linux and MacOS.
BTW, it’s kind of hard to reply when you keep editing.
