I also would like to have more separate libraries, as I don’t like to have Christmas songs and Classic mixed in between.
Thanks for merging the post.
Now that the FR is created, when will it be reviewed?
It is best not to expect any change and be pleasantly surprised when it happens.
But, to your direct question, Roon does not typically respond to feature requests, and very rarely discusses timetables for updates.
Thanks John_V for your message. I am a bit surprised about it because it is said that the Roon Team looks into this, what is preventing them to communicate on FR?
Anyway, I’ll check again in a few weeks to see if that FR has been reviewed. It would be nice to have a status like “needs review / in plan / not accepted / will not implement”.
While the Roonies do read every FR, it’s extremely rare that they will comment giving the status on a FR, so don’t be disappointed if there’s been no response when you check back in.
As @Geoff_Coupe mentioned, while we review every feature request, we don’t necessarily respond to each one. You can see our stance on feature requests in the following thread:
For the time being I would suggest using the current tools at hand: Bookmarks, Storage Location and Profiles to separate the library. Thanks!
Can’t see why Plex’s model would not work for this. I use it to separate my stuff from the kids and works well. We have different stats per user and can only see what each one is allowed to.
But with this you still have one streaming accoint setup across users. I guess the issue with having different libraries would be to also add streaming accounts per user. Here things could get messy and heavy on processing syncing. Not sure I would want that.
It could be different in the sense that it might require two separate databases running at the same time. If you really want separate, there is no overlap and each owner gets the full features of an individual database. If you have two big libraries (local and streaming, separate metadata, stats, favorites, bookmarks etc.), you may be obliged to run two databases simultaneously. Roon is a bit of a beast already, but start multiplying multiple instances and it could get unwieldy.
TBH, it could also be way simpler than this. I just don’t know. It could be as simple as only a few people want it. We often don’t know what’s behind the curtain.
But where do you draw the line, some will want more than two libraries so could see this type of model being untenable especially if they are all using Roon at the same time.
The Plex model seems more appropriate for what most users are looking for more control over the profiles, like locking down some material and allowing only read access to some, still have all the stats per user, radio would work still based on the users play history, you only need one streaming account. We have one Tidal account for me and my partner and we have different tastes, it’s not a problem. I know for some it would, but there will need to be comprise somewhere.
You are lucky your gf doesn’t have sh*tty taste of music.
I don’t think it’s going to be an issue regarding performances if your gear is 1 or 2 years old. For instance on my Mac mini 2018, I have processing speed of 9.5x while upsampling in DSD128. For old gear, there might be a possibility to work in a low performance mode, I guess. And one profile can turn off while the other is on, unless you are looking at multi-zones.
I can create 2 profiles but it is sharing the same library, that doesn’t make sense. Unless it is for pushing to buy 2 licenses.
Hifi is a solo hobby, it’s a bit sad to listen to music alone, it’s like drinking alone. Wouldn’t be nice to listen to music while accommodating with different people taste?
I think that an “all the way” profile implementation can provide this functionality. There are other threads about profiles, like the “Party Mode” thread, but there is no mention of profile specific folders.
When configuring a music folder there can be an option to select the profiles that have access to this folder (only an admin can configure this). With profile information in the Roon database, non-accessible folders can automatically be filtered out when displaying e.g. albums. There shouldn't be a need for a separate database.
Something similar can be used for Tidal/Qobuz import. An import is only for the active user unless the user is privileged to add for others.
A system wide profile feature can be hard to implement in an existing code base but, in my opinion, it would be a great addition.
Exactly what I was implying with the Plex model as it does just what you describe.
I’m not saying her music tastes are great, we just coexist with it. And both can listen to what we want when we want no need for two libraries.
I can see a lot of good use cases for this concept, but as suggested, I could also see it being detrimental to convenient use. I would want everyone to have access to anything, but also for there to be some means of protection. I would want separation of views rather than separation of physical libraries and be able to choose what is in my view.
This feature request also seems to be something that requires extension of the way user profiles work. There is also Roon Security via Profile -- aka "Party Mode" / "Do No Harm" which could be satisfied by means of a read only profile.
I think that extending user profiles to have collection that go beyond just private or shared playlists could be a good approach - some very quick thoughts for discussion:
- Introduce the concept of a system tag that is associated with each user profile - called it a user tag. These tags are used only to drive a user’s personal view of the library for browsing, search, and roon radio including any user feed on what the radio is playing. Like other tags, multi user tags can be associated with a single item. (Is one of them considered an owner? - probably too complicated?).
- This tag would be automatically assigned to library item according to some user actions from the current user profile at the time of the action: Adding to library from Tidal/Quobuz, Adding a radio station.
- Allow these user tags to be associated with music import folders, so music from that folder automtically gets the user tag during import.
- Add user tags collections (so that like playlists, they can be private or shared giving each user the means to organise their private view of the library).
- Metadata might seem to be a problem - I dont want to be managing other poeple’s import metadata, but if its wrong, I want to correct it, but I also dont want other to make correct metadata wrong - so I dont have a view of how this could work.
- Each user tagging is effectively a reference. Reference items cannot be physically deleted until all references are removed.
- Editing of a tag or a playlist etc from another profile requires it to be first copied into the current profiles unless it is a shared tag or playlist. However, I can see a use case where not all shared playlists and tags should be universally editable - ie share for read only, or share for anyone to change.
- Allow for a guest profile - these are effect party mode. It has read only access to other profiles, but unable to change anything that has an impact beyond itself. Once in party profile, a PIN is required to exit it (think like guided access mode on iOS).
- An admin profile - also PIN protected - it is the final arbiter of anything. It can force remove, correct metadata, maybe lock it down etc.
- Maybe all profiles could be optionally pin protected for entry and maybe exit as well in some cases.
These of course go beyond this feature request to encompass other possibly related ideas (related in that they could be satisfied by a single feature set or ‘epic’ for the agile practitioners here).
Another important consideration - for the techies among us - permissions based systems are well understood, however in my experience for non-techie users, they often just end up being a barrier to convenient use and can drive users away, so the intent here is to gain some segregation, some protection, but without generally imposing the kind of barriers and complexities that many permission systems end up imposing. Maybe think in terms of open source - anyone can see anything if they want. You can copy it and adapt to your needs, but you cant mess up the original without some arbitration going on.
Proliferation of tags will take a hit on system responsiveness. Take a read of some of the users who have tagged everything in the system down to the track level.
Separating things by tags can get confusing and potentially increase support efforts. Keeping things silo’d eliminates those support issues and questions. And actually satisfies the OP request.
That is the way that it is now. The OP is rejecting that explicitly and wants an environment where things are separate. And, in threads other than Profile Security, I have actually discussed wanting separate libraries. The answer then, as I suspect it is still, is to have 2 licenses and run 2 cores.
Actually, your suggestions really are their own feature request and probably should move to its own thread. Let me know if you want it to and I’ll move it.
This is for Roon to deal with if that is a problem as I think it is not a problem that users should worry about in terms of describing how they may like the system to work (I havnt hit this, but if its a bug - its a bug). If Roon think this FR has merit, I am sure they would make the underlying mechanisms support the usage better if required, or find another mechanism that can. That’s their responsibility that I trust them to own - not ours
I only mention tags as a concept that we are already familiar with, but please don’t take it literally to mean must use tags system - really - just whatever N:1 concept works. It is not our place to say how the internals of Roon should work, just ask for how we might like the external observed behavior to work.
I think you are also taking a single phrase out of the post as a means of dismiss it all My point is the existing behaviour is still desirable, but I also agree with the original feature request concept of having some means of separating the experience for each user in terms of what portion of a whole that they interact with (physically separate libraries is an implementation detail that is maybe not for us to care about).
And you are right - as a work around for those who wish to do so right now - to libraries, two cores, two account etc is the way to go today. That is not a reason to dismiss they way it could work (if licensing issues allow for this - which they may not). However, that is a hard separation, and I dont think that is an ideal for a family either.
Anyway - my post was intended an illustration of external behaviour to give segregation for users in the context of some other related issues that could be solved by a single approach. It is not intended as a dictate for how it should be implemented. As such, I think it belongs here, not as a separate FR, or maybe you think this FR is only asking for a means of hard segregation? If so, then maybe this is different and more general? Thinking about it - maybe I don’t have a view either way
Maybe if you moved this part of the thread - it would end up without context and thus be hard to read.
I would suggest the FR is renamed as N libraries (for a family) rather than two (for a couple), but I think we can understand that the concept equally applies.
That was the intent I got from the OP, maybe I’m wrong. I read it as wanting to open Roon, select Profile, and access a segregated and discreet database (aka library).
I guess let the OP decide then
Exactly. I’m not that kind of guy that will spend hours and hours of tagging files properly because of OCD. Instead I just want 2 separate libraries, independent and switch automatically between library A & B, without complicated options to setup. Goal is just to enjoy music, not get lost in settings. Hope you don’t mind this approach.
I’m beginning to think that this won’t be implemented because it seems today the only way is to buy 2 licenses and Roon needs the $$$.
New to the forum.
I’m just about to invest in a lot of Roon. And now I see this thread!!! Scary. My wife really – and I mean REALLY – doesn’t like some of the music I like, and I think this is a quite NORMAL situation. Somehow, somewhere, I received the impression that a FAMILY could break up via profiles all of our little loves and experimentations. Now I see that was a false impression!!! I can’t (and won’t be) buying two Nucleous devices just to support my wife and I, and not to mention the kids. I’m also afraid to hear the lifetime membership option may be going away (!!!) which I was going to purchase with my Core device – literally tomorrow (as it is holiday in the USA today).
Roon you have what seems a really cool product – why leave your users hanging with such limited profile configuration options – my wife and I purchase music together but sometimes we don’t listen together – and I really never listen to much to the kids music.
Coming from a background of many decades in the computer industry this issue seems just a real no-brainer. A college student with something less that a complete CS degree could UP your profile game in a very short time I would imagine – are you fearful it will get out of hand – so restrict profiles (and I mean good segregated and secure profiles) to a small number per license (10 maybe).
This seems crazy your users are discussing this so far into your game plan.