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Really good speakers. Had them for two years, sold them. And actually thinking of ordering a another pair…
Agreed, they are great “real world” speakers. One day I’ll summon up the courage to try an 818.3 instead of my current 218 to go with them - hopefully it would not make too much difference and I will not end up with a massive hole in my bank account… $$$ 
Here I am quoting myself because I’ve made a few changes that make the sub a worthwhile companion to DSP5200SE:
- replaced the old 12" driver, which had foam surround material disintegrating, as well as the 60 watt amp with new, and much better -though not expensive-, products
- added sound damping polyfill inside the cabinet, and lowered the crossover to 38Hz
- measured the listening area again with REW so that Thierry could update my HAF convolution filters for more seamless integration
Hitchhikers on the Meridian site say that the sound of 218 (which I also use) can be enhanced for far fewer $$ with better power. I haven’t modified mine to replace the SMPS, but I do give it Shunyata-filtered cords and ENO Ag network connection, both of which have raised the performance.
That said, I still include the 818v3 along with a NetJets card in my annual letter to Santa Claus.
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As an addendum to my earlier post, I recently found a pair of relatively new KEF LS50W actives for sale in a local free-ads listing with slightly scratched/scuffed cabinets and at less than a quarter of the new price.
These now sit each side of my large 2.5m long electronics workbench in my workshop.
Pure luxury.
An amazing sound from such a small unit.
Not in the same league as our studio setup with the Kii’s, but it clearly shows that beyond a certain price point (like the KEFs) you’re into the realm of rapidly diminishing returns… and then that’s just a personal choice of both your sound perception and your wallet…
I’ve used both passive and active speakers for a long time, both in studios and at home. There are advantages to both types depending upon your needs.
I think there’s a lot of truly excellent actives now readily available for the domestic market though, and the prices for actives are now pretty competitive for the amazing sound they can deliver.
If I was starting out, unless I really wanted the challenge and fun of trying to match components and systems to suit my own tastes as the prime driver - I’d look at actives first, then sit back and just enjoy the music!
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Nice pickup with the KEFs David.
The gap closes even more if you properly DSP crossover one or two subwoofers with the KEFs, relieving their 5" woofer of <100Hz playback duties.
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Hmm, wonder what might be the future for the “highend” solutions like ATC, Meridian etc. then?
That might indeed be a good project at some point once I get the workshop properly organised (one of those “I’ll get around to it one day” things) - but with all the test kit - I struggled to find suitable space and support for the KEF’s!
Embarrassment as to just how very untidy my workspace really is - means no photo! 
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I think they’ll hold value a bit better - but that’s just my wild guess. You see some vintage gear - everything from Cyrus to Linn to PS Audio for silly money second hand…
It all depends upon the market demand… and if the “mid-range” audiophile performance bar keeps rising for sensible money, then the differential for high end might become difficult to justify on performance alone.
If you’re talking high end as a statement, furniture or art then I think we all know that usual rationale rarely applies….
Not nearly as long as Meridian (and some others) and, perversely, they apparently do make an effort to measure the room at all (unless they have updated their software since the original release).
ATC isn’t “highend” hifi. There’s no superfluous cosmetics, no hype, just rock solid competent engineering befitting an industry standard professional monitor. They’ll be around for a long time yet.
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How did it go ?
My pair of Dutch&Dutch 8C just arrived a couple of days ago. Unpacking instalation when I return home from Brazil.
Going double Dutch again 
If I remember correctly; D&D → Genelec → D&D?
Care to motivate a bit? (Or link to the post were you maybe already did this)
All the best. S
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Correct !
Both speakers are amazing. I could not recommend both of them enough.
What I like more with Dutch and Dutch, is that they have computers inside each speaker. Opens up for future software updates , applications and third party integrations. Have a native app now , roon ready and they play audio over Ethernet.
I also missed the natural wood cabinet of the 8C.
Sounds wise both Genelec and Dutch and Dutch are phenomenal. Will never go passive again.
Congrats!
I fully understand, sounds like good arguments, especially now D&D is Roon ready. And the Genelec look a bit too industrial to me as well, which is no wonder of course taking in account the history of Genelec.
I also am thinking of going active next time, or even sooner for the second system on a second location 
With what do you feed the D&D’s, I don’t recall. Auralic, Matrix, Lumin ………? Any experience with Aurender.
Have fun setting up your new speakers with Roon and enjoy your system.
All the best. From LUX
S.
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The sooner the better haha !
I actually had the Aurender N10 together with the DD8C early days . Then I became one of the first ROON beta testers and got myself the Innuos Statement as Roon Core . Both the Aurender and Innuos Statement are very good , but in my honest opinion, I would really think twice before spending that kind of money feeding the DD8C. I tried “downgrade” to an Innuos Zen mk3 and it was really good too.
Today I am actually using a NUC as a dedicated roon core. i5 with 32gb ram and 1tb SSD. And it sounds really good aswell, saved a lot of money.
The absolute best sound quality improvement you can do is Room Matching. Integrate the DD8C to the listening room via DSP. The 8C’s have an integration with REW. The results are truly amazing. Even the most expensive streamer, cables , power conditioning won’t even come close to Room Matching… and room matching is free … Will cost you a calibration microphone …
The Dutch and Dutch 8C is a complete system , just ad a roon core, if you want to use Roon ofc. In my opinion Roon is the best audio software, really does magic , user friendly too.
I am using my DD8C for both music and entertainment. When listening to music I play audio over ethernet from my roon core server.
When playing Xbox Series X , watching Netflix or surfing in YouTube etc , I use a HDMI splitter- optical out to an old Cambridge DAC Magic - XLR analog to DD8C. Works perfectly, sounds great because I don’t really care about having the best sound when watching TV or surfing on YouTube…
I’ve also had the Matrix Audio Element X. Loved that machine the best dac I’ve ever owned. I had to use it for volume control to my Genelec’s , and to keep being able to use Roon and the Entertainment.
Some pictures below.
All best
From a tiny village in Northern Greece.
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“The sooner the better”
Right, 
but there is no second location for the D&D’s yet …. and if there is one thing I learned in choosing audio, is take your time.
Again great info and feedback J.D, thank you!
Really helps narrowing things down.
I have a N10 as well, but don’t use it now, it’s at a friend. He is really happy with it, so I wonder if I will see it back 
I used it with the Devialet experts, before they had the infinity streaming board upgrade. It sounded super, but the combo was a little too analytical for me. I also used Auralic, but for me the Aurender beats it.
Now I have a NUC i5/16gb, synology NAS, dedicated mains. From NUC with Cat7 into Devialet expert pro 440 with BW 803D3. Set sits in 60m2+ and 3,50m high room with good space behind (2m) and on the side of the speakers (2m). The room is acoustically quite unproblematic because of “treatment” in the form of 3 floor to ceiling heavy curtains, huge fabric couches, carpet. For me it sounds really great, with really nice detailed imaging, lots of power if so inclined and the music can really engulf me. It is by no means the best or perfect, but for me perfect enough. For now
I have friends with 80 and 100k systems and to my ears, compared to my system, the law of diminishing returns is a real factor here for me. I am starting to have the feeling that for me, with a secondary set of D&D’s even more so.
And yes their systems sound really good and if I was without budget I might do the same, although, all the stuff in the room is not for me.
I will organise a demo in the future and have a listen.
Anyway, I write all this, so you have some info on my setup/taste. Because the room at the second location is way smaller, too small for a second set of D3’s or so to shine, about 25m2.
Reading your first hand experience and info, like audio over ethernet, different streamers and dsp makes it almost a no brainer.
And …… next week I will be having a Innuos Zen III to test for some weeks. Firstly because I heard “my” set with Innuos and NUC somewhere else and for me with Innuos it sounded better on several fronts and secondly because I can be independent of Roon with InnuOS 2.0.
Thank you again for informing me and the pictures. Seems you are hording streamers 
Have a great New Year’s Eve and a healthy, successful and great sounding 2022.
S
Don’t want to hijack the thread, but you’ve got messaging turned off…
I crave for some body and warmth, but then miss “analytical” when it’s gone.
Hi Mike,
I think I have messaging turned on now, thanks 
Yes, I (think I) know what you mean. I came from a stack of Naim. It had body and warmth as you put it. But compared to the 440 in combo with the D3’s and dedicated mains, I now also have a more detailed sound. Some might find this also too much, but I like it. Warmth is absolutely still there but more neutral and body is definitely no issue.
And still I like Naim a lot (gave my girlfriend a Uniti Star) It is a very good sounding and quality piece of hardware.
All the best, S
In 2019 I moved from Naim stack + passive ATC SCM40 speakers to very simple Linn Akurate DSM/3 streamer/dac/pre + active ATC SCM40A combo. Fast forward to 2021… I mean 2022 and I use the same Linn but with ATC SCM50ASL. Going active was the best decision I’ve ever made. It’s funny how you can outperform 5-6 boxes and passive speakers with one box and actives so easilly.
About the DSP discussed earlier. Linn has their own implementation called Space Optimisation, which has worked great for me. Then again, with mic and REW, you can take measurements and make correction file for Roon and use it with any setup.
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