Adding new files - Roon loses files and rescans [Resolved - Removing switch and link aggregation]

Hi @ronfint ---- Thank you for the follow up and taking the time to answer my questions. Both are appreciated!

Moving forward, can you please verify the following for me:

  1. Please provide the make and model Netgear switch that is being used in your setup.

  2. Can you confirm if jumbo frames are disabled on the Synology NAS.

  3. In your initial report to us you mentioned the following:

I do this via itunes on a separate computer. All was well, but this morning half of my albums were missing and Roon was rescanning.

The watch folder you have mounted in ROON, is this same location that is being accessed by your itunes library? If you are indeed using Roon + iTunes together, can you confirm if your iTunes XML is in the same location as the media or is it in a separate location?

-Eric

Thanks, Here are the answers to your questions.

  1. Netgear GS108Tv2
  2. I see no mention of Jumbo Frames in my iPv4 configuration. I assume it is disabled.
  3. The iTunes library is on a different computer, not on the NAS or the computer that contains the Roon core.

The NAS is mounted via smb. I should probably also mention that it is connected to the switch in a bond using link aggregation.

Last night I added 8 more 24/192 albums that I digitized, but the problem did not reoccur, and all is still well.

Ok – This just happened again. I think the loss of data was triggered by my running ChronoSync to back up my NAS.

Hi @ronfint ----- Thank you for the feedback. A few things are jumping out at me right off the bat. I am going to break my suggestions down into two parts, addressing the switch and configuration you are using (i.e link aggregation).

The first being the switch you are implementing (Netgear GS108Tv2), if I am not mistaken this is a managed switch, correct?

  • I would confirm that JUMBO frames are NOT active on this switch as you have already confirmed that they are not active on the NAS.

  • We have seen issues in the past with managed switches causing issues in networ configurations. I would try enabling flow control, as it has helped others in the past. More information on what flow control is can be found here.

Second, is that you are using the switch in a bond via link aggregation.

  • I would consider, temporarily of course, testing without using the link aggregation.

  • Furthermore, and this has more so to do with the NAS, can you confirm that you are using an SMB 3 mount.

Lastly, you mentioned the following:

“Last night I added 8 more 24/192 albums that I digitized, but the problem did not reoccur, and all is still well.”

Was anything done differently or reconfigured to help yield a different result here or were things the same as they have been? Just trying to understand what was different that time around.

-Eric

I can’t currently get access to my switch since the password is failing. I need to contact Netgear. Until I get that fixed, I can make no changes to the switch.

What I will try in the meantime is to close roon and dimount my NAS from the Roon Core computer each time I back up my NAS.

OK, I got into my switch. Jumbo frames were disabled. I did enable flow control. However, I did not change link aggregation as that would take some time. If problems persist, I will do that. Also, I am connected via smb 3.02.

I think that turning off everything Roon related when I use ChronoSync to back up my NAS may be a fix. At least I know that I ran into problems today right after a backup. So I guess that I’ll see where that leads.

Thanks for your help.

By the way, is real time updating of the Roon library unavailable for smb?

Hey @ronfint

Generally speaking, real-time watching over SMB is less reliable than with local drives. We’ve done a lot of work on this issue, but what we’ve seen over and over again is that most NAS devices don’t reliably report changes to Roon, which obviously would be a requirement for this work properly.

While we’re still largely at the mercy of how often the NAS reports changes back to us, we’ve made a lot of improvements here, and we are working on some short term and long term changes to make this consistently perform even better. Some of the underlying issues were discussed in greater detail here.

To be clear what you’re describing here sounds a lot worse than what we’ve heard since the recent changes. I suspect something about the way your network is configured is exacerbating this problem, but @Eric will work with you to make sure we figure out exactly what that is.

Thanks!

1 Like

@mike
Thank you.

Is there a way to disable real time watching of folders and only rescan when either ‘Force Scan’ is selected or Roon core is restarted?

My uneducated guess is that all my Roon related problems come from Roon trying to update while changes are being made to my NAS.

Today I added files to the NAS, but before doing so, I shut down the Roon core and also the computer it resides on. After files were added to my NAS, I reopened Roon core, and everything was peachy – Roon scanned my NAS drive, found the new files, and lost nothing.

So, I think this is what I need to do, and that is why I asked above if it is possible to disable realtime watching.

@support

I reported these issues about two weeks ago, and I followed your instructions, but I still have major problems with Roon losing files whenever changes are made to my Synology NAS. (My Roon core is a MacBook Pro, connected by ethernet.)

I always lose files when

  1. Adding files to my NAS
  2. Backing up my NAS using ChronoSync.

My — I hope temporary — solution is to completely shut down my Roon core computer when I am engaged in either of the above two activities. This works, but a better solution would be to have the ability to turn off realtime updating of Roon.

Can this be done? Is there a better option?

Thanks,
Ron

Try this:

Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Disable.

Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Enable.

Roon --> Settings --> Storage --> --> Rescan.

I guess you and @Eric did not make any further progress on this.

@Carl

Thanks very much. I’ll try the technique you suggest and report back in a few days.

Hey @ronfint – we are considering adding configurable rescan timing to a future release, but I don’t have a firm timeline right now.

In the meantime, what you’re experiencing does sound less stable than I’d expect, as I mentioned before. Sorry for the lack of follow up here.

Can you tell us what options you have selected in Synology DSM > Control Panel > File Services > SMB tab > Advanced Settings?

Can you also confirm you’ve tested without link aggregation? It would be a good data point to know if that had any effect.

@mike
Thanks. Here are the settings you requested:

Maximum SMB protocol: SMB3
Minimum SMB protocol: SMB1
SMB range: SMB1, SMB2, SMB2 and Large MTU, SMB3
Transport encryption mode: Disable
Enable Opportunistic Locking (checked)
Enable SMB2 lease (checked)

Nothing else checked or filled in.

I never did disable link aggregation because of the PIA factor.

By the way, rather than configurable rescan timing, I’d prefer the option of turning it off altogether and rescanning manually.

Hi @ronfint ---- Thank you for the status update and as Mike has mentioned, my apologies for the slow response here.

Being as this behavior is continuing to manifest itself despite any of the troubleshooting tips given by other users and the Roon team members, I would strongly urge you to consider testing without the use of link aggregation. This is the one test that has not been performed yet and as stated, this would be a very good data point for us to have.

We understand that network troubleshooting can indeed be tedious, but the best approach we have found when handling these types of reports is to simplly use the process of elimination; removing complexity from the chain of communication and slowly adding the “links” back in to see where things break. Let us know how it goes.

-Eric

Fair enough. This weekend I’ll remove the switch, undo LAG on my NAS, and link everything directly to my Airport Extreme.

Thanks to all — removing the switch (and link aggregation) has stabilized Roon for me. Files no longer disappear when new ones are added. Realtime updating does not seem to work, but I can ‘Force Rescan’, and new files are recognized by Roon. I’m happy with this setup.

I spoke a bit too soon. Force Rescan missed the first track on each album that I imported. I’m now doing a restart to see if that finds all the tracks.

Update – It did.