Apple Music High Res

Marco_Klobas · July 2, 2021, 8:06am

Thanks @wklie for the clarification.

Jez · July 2, 2021, 9:12am

There seems to be a lot of speculation about whether Apple Music, or for that matter Tidal or Qobuz, are bit perfect, and whether or not there is watermarking. Is it not possible to just capture the bitstream and compare with a rip of the cd and thus get a definitive answer?

wklie · July 2, 2021, 9:15am

Several people have done that and reported their results, and my recent posts have reflected all those findings. I don’t consider the results from these experiments to be speculations.

Jez · July 2, 2021, 9:20am

Thanks. I haven’t seen any of those posts. Could you give me a link to any of them?

wklie · July 2, 2021, 9:20am

Please read AudiophileStyle links above in Apple Music High Res - #1208 by Marco_Klobas - two parts and all follow up comments in the last 7 days.

We know that they are not bit perfect via USB. We only don’t know why the integrity is destroyed (speculation: watermarking or dithering), and why they chose lossy AAC for in-app AirPlay2 (speculation: enhanced buffering for multi-room).

I recently test Tidal app iPad USB output, there is no question it is bit perfect as the USB DAC successfully authenticates MQA.

I can test Qobuz app but I don’t think it should have a problem with bit perfect output.

Mike_Scheinkman · July 2, 2021, 12:37pm

Not sure if you missed my posts but I’m pretty convinced Apple Music is lossless over AirPlay 2 in the IOS 15 beta. Would this be something you could confirm? Or were you only able to prove lossless over AirPlay 1? No word from Naim tech on this yet. I guess the other thing test for is if it really is lossless, does it stay lossless if you do multi-room.

I’m only basing my conclusion from listening tests. Only seen 2 other people also agree it sounds better but they also think the beta sounds louder, so that could affect their opinion.

Rugby · July 2, 2021, 1:49pm

Turn on Volume leveling and play a track, is your DAC showing the expected sample rate? If so then it is doing so to a non-bitperfect audio stream. Just because the sampling rate is the same, it is not a guarantee of “bit perfect”-ness.

You need to use a music format which will “break”, as @wklie stated above:

Joe_Strain · July 2, 2021, 3:33pm

Understood. Thank you for the clarification.

Ali_Shafai · July 2, 2021, 4:28pm

I have this exact cable and can confirm that it works without the need for the CCK, since the iPad Pro has a USB-C port.

CrystalGipsy · July 2, 2021, 6:11pm

It won’t be switching rates via iTunes it will output fixed rate of what windows sets it’s system audio at. Via your iPhone /iPad you get exclusive control and proper rate switching and it’s bit perfect via iTunes you don’t get either. It’s not perfect only when the rate of system audio matches the rate of the source stream, all others are beung resampled by windows.

Poseidon77 · July 2, 2021, 9:30pm

Even in iOS 15 (Beta 2) Apple Music doesn’t stream in ALAC via Airplay 2. Astonishing!

Mike_Scheinkman · July 2, 2021, 9:32pm

What, I’m shocked by that? You check all the settings? It clearly sounds better than IOS 14.

Poseidon77 · July 2, 2021, 9:49pm

This is what my streamer indicates (Cambridge Edge NQ).

Mike_Scheinkman · July 2, 2021, 10:00pm

I was just making sure your Apple Music setting were right. Sound Check off, Dolby Atoms off, EQ off, and lossless on. That kind of thing.

I figured maybe IOS 15 was slightly louder than IOS 14, and that was tricky by me into thinking it sounded better but even if I increase the volume for 14, 15 is still better. Not sure what would account for this if it’s still lossy.

Poseidon77 · July 2, 2021, 10:11pm

Mike_Scheinkman · July 2, 2021, 10:18pm

Thanks. So i forgot to do the one test that would be easiest, test same track against Amazon on same iPad with beta over AirPlay. When I did that, I could hear that Amazon was better. But I still can’t figure out why Apple Music beta sounds better than IOS 14.

I feel like an idiot thinking it was lossless. Lesson learned. Next time I’ll wait for proof.

Hey, can you just change to regular lossless over wifi to see what that does. That’s how I tested. AirPlay can’t do hires.

Poseidon77 · July 2, 2021, 10:23pm

Already did that, doesn’t change anything.

SKBubba · July 2, 2021, 11:45pm

Lol. Apple Music sounds like a complicated mess. Let’s see what Spotify does.

Rockhound · July 2, 2021, 11:55pm

Total shambles. I imagine Spotify’s will be very well executed.

Mike_Scheinkman · July 3, 2021, 1:49am

That works for a transportable setup but not idea for a home setup. Prefer wireless control. Roon/Qobuz is mostly ideal for home besides the limited library, but think they gave up on a mobile solution away from home. That’s my I’m testing out these other apps.

Besides making a fool of myself using Apple Music, I also realized AirPlay is not ideal. You can’t just pickup another device and continue control like you can with roon or Spotify. My only worry with Spotify is whether all streamers will also need to be updated to handle lossless. That will cause further delays. Think I’ve given up on Apple unless they come out with a handoff feature and have wireless lossless.