Apple Music High Res

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1415

3. discussion point Apple is the market leader in streaming (classical music).

If only sound images are compared, Spotify is far behind. If metadata is also discussed, Apple also slips sharply in the competition. If Primephonic has not created a remedy for you, only Idagio, Qobuz and Tidal with MQA remain for mobile use. Are Apple managers behind HiRes or are they just making their own system and format near it again because they think no one hears the difference anyway?

You can read more about it here:

I have the worst ears here in the community and am not allowed to have a say.

4. discussion point far behind the competition

How can this be measured? About the number of users, subscriptions, special features that are unique, about leading technology, device availability, degree of mobility, number of partners, business practicesā€¦?

Iā€™ll start with a note for 1st and 2nd generation iPod users:

Those who didnā€™t quite live in the Apple eco-system had to have the MusicMatch jukebox to sync iPod devices. Those who wanted to buy and stream at the same time needed MusicMatch Store and MusicMatch On Demand. Thatā€™s how Qobuz still works 20 years later.

In an email Steve Jobs wrote to his Apple managers in 2003, he expressed concern about the Musicmatch music service. Steve Jobs wrote that Apple needed to make sure that music purchased from Musicmatch would not play on the iPod. The same was true for Music On Demand.

These dubious business practices became the subject of a court case 10 years later.

Steve Jobs made great history with the iPod and with iTunes, getting 800,000,000 customers. He was the leader with the iPod, but the much better software was very annoying and he worked diligently to improve iTunes.

Now Iā€™m doing another report on my tale of woe with Apple. I would also love to hear the success stories of other customers and why you came to Roon anyway.

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1416

This isnā€™t the case in my experience, quite the opposite. I have a large workstation, an iPad and a Mac Mini plugged into a mixing desk at times. The first sign of any noise and itā€™s (almost invariably) muting the iPad channel is the answer. Theyā€™re really not that well shielded at all.

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1417

Unless I am very much mistaken, an iPad is a computer, albeit a computer in a very slimline case!.

1418

Fair point. We all hope that AM will find a way to make streaming hi-res files more like Tidal Connect Or Roon RAAT.

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1419

Interesting. Iā€™m wouldnā€™t know how to measure electric noise, so Iā€™m happy with being proven wrong. I thought that the iPad running on battery would produce less electric noise.

1420

Quite frankly, I donā€™t care very much whoā€™s in the lead re streaming. I want a product that works for me. People prefer one thing to the other for all sorts of reasons. I listen to classical music, so for me booklets are very important. Thatā€™s why Iā€™ve been with Qobuz for many years (and, clearly, because of Roon integration). I was a Primephonic subscriber, tried out Idagio, but for diverse reasons the services didnā€™t entirely satisfy me.
My problem is not with Roon, but with Qobuz ā€” some labels missing and, increasingly for me anyway, missing tracks. Thatā€™s why I hope that Apple will perfect Primephonic (including booklets), so I could end my subscription to Qobuz. For the time being, though, Qobuz + Roon works best for me (which, of course, is all relative).
Tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music, or Google donā€™t work for me, again for various reasons. I might not like their UI, or the sound quality, or ā€¦
All this is obviously a matter of personal preferences, and Iā€™m happy to have all those options and make the best choice for my needs.

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1421

Yep, thatā€™s what I thought and to be fair I am talking about the analogue output as particularly badly behaved. It occasionally used to ā€œhumā€ in tune with my use of a wireless trackball mouse. Iā€™m not anti-Apple, but I think that they trade on reputation (early MIDI support, which was cool) some as been particularly noise-free or particularly well suited to audio.

I suspect the potential advantage of a battery psu is trumped by lots of RF noisy components in a small space.

1422

For the iPad Pro; I have it docked on the Magic Keyboard, using the keyboardā€™s pass-through port for constant charging, while using its own USB-C port to go out to the DAC.

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1423

I guess one benefit with how it works right now is it forces you to do more album listening (instead of changing tracks/playlists/albums endlessly) and forces you to do exercise to get up off the couch to walk to the HiFi rack to change albums/playlists etc.

Like the old CD player and turntable days :grinning:

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1424

Complete opposite if you ask Rob Watts of Chord

AC/mains RF noise is the worst according to Rob and the best USB source is a battery powered one that is completely disconnected from AC.

Whatever RF a powerbank or iPad or phone source will output, his DACs are designed to filter.

He calls mains RF a fungus and difficult to filter. It goes everywhere.

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Full post:

Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread | Page 994 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

So the potential disadvantage of ā€˜noiseā€™ from an iPad/iPhone (not connected to the wall obviously or charging by powerbank) is easily trumped by the absence of mains RF which is a bigger problem.

Other DAC designers may have different ideas of course.

Iā€™ve had some private discussions with a couple other well known DAC designers who are on the same page.

iPad is charging at the wall? Any difference when you unplug it from the charger ?Completely unplugged, not just switching off power at the wall.

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1426

Iā€™m aware of the theory, although in practice all batteries/supply implementations arenā€™t created equal.

My example was from experience, not theory, and unplugging the iPad made no difference. Iā€™m too lazy to turn off the socket and just unplug the cable from the tablet. BTW Iā€™m a genuine fan of RW and Chord products, had have read most of what heā€™s posted on HeadFi and elsewhere, but that doesnā€™t change my experience in reality.

Not for my MoJo/Poly and iPad pro combination when Bluetooth output to the Poly, that produces plenty of chatter, again the iPad is unplugged. Perhaps I have a bad iPad, but the Mac Mini is also a noisy machineā€¦

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1427

All good. His comments are from measurements not just theory (heā€™s measured phones, laptops, PCs).

But obviously he hasnā€™t measured every personā€™s system and all the gear on the planet etc.

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1428

Not my Mojo connected to my iPhone via USB. RF is horrible and will sell it most likely.

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1429

Thatā€™s not RF.

2G is still live in the UK but not where I am fortunately.

It was solved with Hugo2 and later DACs.

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1430

Whatever it is, it goes bonkers the closer my phone is to the mojo.

1431

Yes known Mojo issue and pain in the a$$ if you live in an area that still has 2G active.

A solved issue with newer products and non-issue if 2G is no longer active (growing number of countries).

Get a Hugo2 and no more problem :slight_smile:

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1432

No way I am paying that much for the Hugo :slight_smile:

Thanks though for clarifying this for me :beer:

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1433

Agreed Mojo was crap when I had it picked up all sorts of crap from my phone. Didnā€™t keep it long.

1434

Mineā€™s still my most listened to Roon endpoint in truth. :wink: No offence taken though, I use it wirelessly with a poly as my office/in-house head-fi unit. Itā€™s noise-free and sounds fine. Getting a bit OT for this thread in truth.

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1435

Agree. I use Roon or SD card. Sounds fab. Just donā€™t put a phone next to it but that went for my devialet too!

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