lol, also true 
1 Like
All good points! Thx
I can foresee doing exactly that. With Appleās new support for HighRes/lossless (and perhaps more importantly, spatial audio), Roon and Apple Music seem to be closer to being competing products. I still prefer the Roon UI but Apple Music offers several compensating benefits (such as mobility, family sharing, and tighter hardware/software integration with Apple products). I may not be ready to make the switch very soon but plan to keep an eye on new developments, such as how quickly Apple assembles a critical mass of content (along with system upgrades) to support their newly announced features.
Iād rather the wider potential for as many people as possible to discover the benefits of higher-quality audio. I appreciate to no end what organizations like Roon & Qobuz, among many others, have done, and what they continue to do, for the hobby, but, none of these companies have the ability to reach or influence the general population the way in which Apple does.
1 Like
Do you really think the āwider populationā whose main interaction with music these days is via Siri and Alexa really care? Or have the type of devices at hand where on can really tell the difference? Itās all marketing imoā¦ though fair enough that they should have the choice. I just wish there was the talk of more loyalty, the expense etc. be damned, on here in regards to Roon and Qobuz.
I agree, a few here seem to be very quick to throw Roon/Qobuz/Tidal in the bin cos Apple snapped their fingers.
The greying/balding/50-70 year old men canāt keep this hobby afloat forever, and this type of thinking is exactly what is constricting its potential growth. Aside from headphone meets, which generally skew somewhat younger, I continue to see very little diversity at audio showsā¦
As Iāve said in other posts, maybe Appleās foray into higher quality audio is a passing interest for 98% of the people who try it, I donāt know. What I do know is that the vast majority of the general population is now being exposed to higher quality audio, for the first time, in greater numbers, than at any point in the past couple of decades. That is entirely because of Apple. Not Tidal, not Qobuz, and, as great as it is, not Roon.
Sure, Amazon is offering lossless and hi-res, but, even they canāt offer the tight integration of hardware, software, and services that Apple can.
I find hope in the future of this hobby from the folks on Reddit, talking about buying better DACs, or their first new set of cans, solely because they want to experience this new initiative.
98% may use it once, and never try it againā¦So what? Maybe this leads the remaining 2%, an entirely new audience, on the path towards eventually appreciating the benefits of Roon or Qobuz.
7 Likes
None of this I really get. What exactly is unique about Roon? Itās an aggregator of local and streaming services combined with brilliant metadata and quality transport to a variety of endpoints. The services it aggregates surely should not matter. It would be nice to think that the minimum for a service to be integrated be lossless.
It would be nice to have the choice. Qobuz is horrible in my car. The only way I cn get it to play anything is by either downloading or using the phone app. Not ideal. Then its brilliant as a quality streaming service. Apple is great in the car. Iād like the choice if possible. I donāt really care about all the extra metadata oon seems to care about, just let me access Apple Music lossless and HiRes, add songs, playlists and albums to my library and play then bitperfect to endpoints.
2 Likes
Theyāll always put their best effort into their own hardware solutions but yeh, Apple TV+ needs other endpoints besides an Apple TV. It will be always best on Apple Harware. Well, Roon core works very well on Apple Hardware. Apple Music is a funny one. They almost operate outside of Appleās typical stye of marketing. They seem to be happier to beta launch as I think lossless and spatial are very much being beta tested right now on the public (no extra cost remember). Much does not work as it shouldā¦ no lossless playback on AirPlay - at least it seems like that.
Neill yes it does seem to be that the rush to beat Spotify out of the door has left some huge holes in the product as it is clearly not ready for prime time.
You are correct about AirPlay not being lossless, lotās of postās in multiple threads.
Although bashing Apple is kind of funny and maybe even a need for some I guess we can rest assured the worldās most profitable company does employ only a very small fraction of morons. It even might be wise to assume they plan quite a number of steps ahead. If audiophiles may not play a significant role for them, donāt be upset or bitter. For my part I will be happy if AirPlay is hi-res and lossless. I would not be grieving if Qobuz, Spotify or Tidal vanished. Thatās life in business. If Roon manage to integrate AM great, if not well the world will keep turnin.
2 Likes
I take an almost diametric view. I see Apple as an all encompassing invasive corporate bully to be avoided at almost any cost. Apple is undoubtedly very successful, and many people nowadays buy into its lifestyle culture. However, itās not for me!
I would be very disturbed if Qobuz and Tidal were to go because that for me would also mean saying goodbye to Roon, and that would be a huge loss in respect of my everyday enjoyment of music. I really canāt understand why anyone on this forum with a Roon subscription would feel differently, even to the point of seeming to relish the prospect in some cases.
In the event that they do go, I would almost certainly switch my streaming allegiance to Spotify. In the unlikely event that Apple succeeds in killing off Spotify there remains Amazon. In the event that only Apple were to remain as a music streaming service, I would be faced with a difficult choice of signing up to their streaming service, or ditching external streaming altogether and making do with the 2k+ albums I have on my local NAS.
Iām not sure what my decision would be, but I sincerely hope that I donāt have to make that choice.
Long live Tidal, Qobuz and Roon I say!
4 Likes
Understood. Got no horses in this race, maybe apart from being happy with how Apple deals with data privacy.
Those with huge local archives may be better off with Roon. For now as this may change in AM too. Future type of user will be different, probably all streaming. I rarely use the Roon catalog info and Apple provide decent data as well today. And with one supplier to deal with I am way more confident than find myself between a rock and a hard place.
The average listener, even with above average gear, probably wonāt notice a difference with High Res / lossless. Spatial audio is another thing. I have not heard Appleās implementation yet but I do have BACCH4Mac in my system, which seems to be the same concept. The difference, if set up properly, and for some recordings more than others, can be about as big as the difference between mono and stereo. Apple is targeting headphone users mainly , which means (a) the buyer neednāt invest in an expensive, complex, low-WAF Dolby Atmos system, and (b) the experience is completely mobile.
Personally, Iāve never cared much for headphones, so I may remain content with as much āspatial audioā as I can get from a 2 channel loudspeaker system. Namely a wider, deeper, taller soundstage and somewhat better imaging. It remains to be seen whether the new-and-improved Apple Music will ever do that better for me than Roon + BACCH. If so, Iād get the mobility Roon does not offer, I could ditch at least one cluttering component (my Roon server), and Iād cut my monthly fees from about $30 (for Roon + Tidal) to $9.99 (for Apple Music). But at this point, I donāt foresee Appleās spatial audio system working over a 2 channel loudspeaker system, and Iām not about to wire my living room for 7 or more speakers. I could make Apple Music work with BAACH4 Mac, but until/unless MacOS Monterey improves on the current Screen Sharing controls, Roon seems to offer a more elegant multi-device, in-home user experience.
Iām not bashing Apple out of amusement - my Mac Pro, MacBook Air, iPad Pro, etc and soon enough Mini M1 would say otherwise. But it would be sad if the monoliths win out in the streaming services, and if Qobuz or Tidal were to fold. Thatās where my loyalty to Apple stops, and my loyalty to Qobuz/Roon begins. Some of us have invested heavily in the Roon ecosystem and love the enjoyment it brings to music replay.
1 Like
In all fairness all streaming services seek market domination. Very few if any care for music other than as a vehicle to make money with. So everyone chose their poison. Whatās tempting with AM for me is itās one capable party to run both, the Roon and the Tidal part. Financially super solid so no worries they will fold. Even streaming gear will most probably be usable.
I activated an Apple Music trial earlier today.
Dusted off a pair of Bluetooth headphones (Beoplay H7s) and tried to give spatial audio a whirl. Unfortunately, I found little Dolby Atmos content that appeals to me.
I find the system requirements confusing, but my understanding is that any headphones (including BT cans) should work with an iPhone 7 or later, iOS 14.6, and Dolby Atmos set to āalways onā. I listened to a little Beatles, Nora Jones, and Mahler (all marked as Dolby Atmos tracks).
So far, Iām underwhelmed. These tracks sounded fine, but I donāt hear a dramatic leap forward in 3D imaging. The music is still mostly inside the boundaries of my head, not halfway up to the clouds or over on my neighborās lawn. I donāt feel Nora Jonesā breath on my cheeks. I donāt seem to be getting an uncanny head-tracking effect, either.
I prefer the spatial effects from BAACH4Mac playing through my 2 channel, hybrid electrostatic floor standers. Maybe Iām missing something in the setup or need Apple Airpods for the full effect.
1 Like
I just posted a cheat sheet:
1 Like