ARC bit-perfect in Android phone! [To External USB-DAC]

My understanding, even though Qobuz states that you are at the mercy of the android phone audio limitation which at best is 48khz / 24 bit.

ARC is taking away this internal android processing and ports it to an external DAC thus you are now getting the total capability of the DAC.

Not in Roon, this has been discussed so many times, just use the forum search. By its nature Android has always resampled to one specific rate this is normally 48/24 the same as iPhones do. Some devices do it at higher rates dependant on the DAC inside. Most apps leave it up to the os to decide what to do, so for 99% of android devices it will be resampled. Some apps like Roon opt to do the resampling itself as they feel they can do a better job than Androids limited capabilities. Roon assumes all devices will natively resample and are using the standard Android Audio path and checks the os to get what this rate is and then resamples

You have to code to bypass the system resampling either in app or in the case of most daps is by modifying the underlying operating system to bypass it. This means that apps that just pass through and don’t resample themselves pass through as native and bit perfect. Not all daps do this some only modify their own player and don’t bother either the os. Ontology/Sony have done this in the past.

What Roon is now doing for ARC is to finally recognise external dacs that can bypass the Android Audio path using a bespoke driver, this is what UAPP has been doing for years. It’s not easy and is full of support nightmares as each android device throws in its own curve balls as do all the dacs usb implementations. They are also going to look at doing a similar thing for internal dacs that are also capable of bypassing system resampling this is another bag of worms and will take them some time. Roon isn’t the only app that has done resampling itself on Android, Plex isn’t but perfect on Android and I could not get PowerAmp to be either.

When you say it displays 192 when streaming Qobuz what does? Does the phone have a dispaly to tell you what it’s playing at or you just looking at Qobuz app? If latter then it’s absolutely no indication of what is happening after the app as it will just display what stream its pulling after that it’s down to the OS to do what ever it does. So you have no way of knowing what it actually is unless they give you a display of the rate it’s processing it all at. I imagine I’m even if it has a 192/24 DAC it’s likely upsampling everything to it.

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Running at full volume on a Violectric Chronos, no possibility to lower the volume in RoonArc or via the hardware buttons on the Chronos (the phone shows the volume being adjusted, but there’s no effect on the output).

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No volume control while playing out of my Android phone (Samsung S21 Ultra) with DSD enabled through my Violectric Chronos.

Maximum volume and unable to turn down.

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Can Roon update us about the progress of fixing that Max Volume issue?

Thanks.

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I imagine this will resolve resampling on LG phones. If so, I’d be SO happy because my two LG phones would make for exceptional endpoints well into the future. With ARC I’d be able to take their exceptional dac anywhere and plug into any system with AUX. The ultimate, relatively cheap, portable source.

@Paul_Williams See above. UAPP does it on LG phones, and it sounds like making it work is in the plans. I’d prefer that over DSP, since I listen to bit perfect and prefer not to EQ. Instead, I do use high quality gear where you can clearly hear the differences and choose your sound preferences via the gear (yes, I have dozens of headphones). In fact, you can hear a very subtle difference with resampled ARC vs bit perfect UAPP but you do need something like the QDC Anole VX.

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I second Focal Bathys.

Almost blew my eardrums out :unamused:

There must be a warning in the app!!

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Smartphone
Samsung A71

USB DAC
Zorloo Zophia Wire.less Earphone MQA Version
Zorloo ZuperDAC Pro & Max

Issues

  • initial volume is at maximum. dangerous to start playback while wearing earbuds/headphones
  • MQA rendering not supported

Unfortunately android OS re-sample everything to x48k multiples. When you included the software volume it is no longer bit perfect.

To overcome, need to bypass software volume control and instead use a hardware. Most DACs chip has built in hardware volume so controlling at the DAC side there’s no need to re-sample. I think ARC is at works now and may include support for hardware volume control for both internal and external DACs.

Meanwhile use this with caution as current ARC will out maximum loudness to your earpiece when USB driver is enabled

Hey all. Roon ARC 2.0.7 was just released, and it should fix the volume control issues for a lot of people, if not everyone. Please give it a spin after you get the update and let us know how it goes.

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Smartphone
Samsung Galaxy S20 FE 5G

USB DAC
Hidizs S9 Pro

Roon ARC
build 108

Issues

  • Initial volume is at maximum (but volume control works fine)

Smartphone
Sony Xperia 5 II

USB DAC
Zorloo Ztella MQA version

Roon ARC
2.0.7

Issues

  • Initial volume is at maximum (but volume control works fine)

Updated to ARC 1.0(109). Set USB driver. Again, my ears exploded with maximum volume on my Questyle M15 DAC.

When is it expected to be fixed

Thanks

Release Notes

In Android, once you connect the USB DAC, you get the dialog to use in ARC. Confirm to use it and the ARC app launches. Select your song and hit play. Playback starts at maximum volume. You have to use volume control to reset it back to normal.

Be careful: try it with headphone off your ears!

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Same here with arc build 106.
FiiO ka3 fw 2.0 - playback starts at max volume level(every time the DAC is connected to the phone). Lesson learned from last time. I used less sensitive headphones and they were not on my head.
Friendly suggestion to @brian
Grab a list of all misbehaving hardware from the comments above, order it and give it to dev and qa as Christmas present :wink: I know it’s pricey, but business owners should reinvest in proper tools if they want to stay competitive on the market. We as a customers pay monthly, yearly or lifetime subs, and we do expect quality in return. Thanks a million!

Just reporting back.
The latest update (build 1182) has fixed this for the Qudelix 5K.

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Hey all,

It appears that there were two independent problems here, and we only fixed one of them this week–

Problem 1 was that volume control simply didn’t work at all on a certain subset of DACs–we were essentially detached from their volume control completely, so they defaulted to max volume because that’s what most DACs do.

Problem 2 relates to the logic for saving/restoring volume level across runs, and setting the correct volume on the DAC at connection time. That step was being skipped sometimes, which left the DAC defaulting to max volume, because that’s what most DACs do.

This week’s release addressed problem 1. Problem 2, on the other hand, has been there all along, and was hiding behind problem 1 for many of you. When we fixed problem 1, we tested the areas impacted by that fix, and all indications are that that fix was successful and that it did not introduce regressions in behavior.

Problem 2 on the other hand, is hardware agnostic, and somehow got missed in our testing process a few weeks ago. We weren’t focused on this area of the system after fixing problem 1 for this week’s build (and indeed, the fixes for problem 1 did not cause this issue). We are investigating how this was missed to prevent a similar error in the future.

Now that we have full understanding and have fixed both, we’re working on getting a build out as soon as we can. Sorry for the hiccup, everyone.

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Received this email, back on 12/02/22, from Roon…

image

How to enable our new USB driver for Android
Itching to try our update? Here’s how to set it up.

Go to your settings page in Roon ARC and select “Enable USB driver.”

When you plug in your USB-connected audio device, you’ll be prompted to allow Roon ARC to access the device.

Once confirmed, Roon ARC will switch over to the USB driver.

You can confirm what’s happening by checking Roon ARC’s signal path.

So I ordered a usb cable for my Pixel 6 Android phone hoping to bypass the Android limitation. Enabled USB driver on ARC app settings. Connected my phone to my car’s usb port, turned on my car and it automatically switched to usb mode. But I am not prompted to allow Roon Arc to access my device and no audio plays through car speakers. Instead, my phone vibrates and my car’s display says, “Check USB memory or Ipod” → “No USB memory.”

Do I need to have a DAC attached, as shown in Roon’s image, to make this work? Or is there a setting on the car or phone I need to apply in order to make an audible connection via USB?

Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks.

Thank you, Brian! Appreciate the input.
P.s. slight off topic. Volume also resets to max when I connect my fiio DAC to my Mac. If possible to apply the same fix in the desktop app when using exclusive mode would be amazing.