Are headphones a substitute for speakers?

I agree. Diminishing returns it is. If your hearing is fine you will definitely hear differences between let’s say a benchmark system and LINA. The latter is more refined, detailed etc. most people will most likely prefer the LINA system in a blind test. However, it is also unaffordable to most and I totally understand people getting mad at even the offering of a 35k headphone only system (which isn’t even a preamp for speakers…). And honestly the differences are tiny.

@Kelly_Burkhart BTW I wouldn’t say clocks are worthless. They can have an effect on sound. But here as well, differences are audible but small. In the LINA system I am confident that the clock makes a difference.

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@Coltrane Very well stated.

In today’s world, where for many people the Apple AirPods Pro are way more than good enough, an external DAC, let alone a separate word clock for an external DAC, is just not something that they would ever even consider. We “audiophiles” are a very tiny group well outside of the mainstream. A tiny but very passionate group.

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I’m with you. While headphones are certainly useful, and even necessary in many situations, I feel that there is a tactile effect of live music, and to also music from speakers. When you can feel a bass drum, or the reflection of a cymbal crash, that’s part of what you’re “hearing”. It’s part of the effect. That can not be felt with any headphones. That’s also why I dislike the argument about what frequencies you can hear, and whether they need to be reproduced. The lowest rumbles may be below the frequency that you can hear, but can be felt. The high frequency that may be above your range, could be what makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

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Disclaimer - I am100% headphone and have been for many years.

I have been through my share of speakers from KEF Concertos to Quad ESL 62 to Quad 21 so I am not anti speakers. Indeed I would jump at the chance to re-equip with speakers.

I have also been though the AV 5.1 phase with real speakers around the room

In the original post the reasons for no speakers is clear, many of us live in close proximity to neighbours , and “loved ones” who perhaps don’t share our tastes in music.

Perhaps the most important aspect of headphones to me is the ability to drive the elements to perfection , something unfortunately I cannot do with speakers. Neighbours/wives often compromise “how loud” a speaker can be driven and hence the sound quality cannot be optimal . Headphones on the other hand is MY choice.

In the same way a house is a home and maybe not the specifically designed listening environment , I look at some of the audio set ups we see and wonder how people get away with it . I certainly couldn’t (SWMBO)

I suppose the final aspect is the cost of “variety” even a really great pair of headphones doesn’t REALLY break the bank whereas a set of speakers, a suitable amp to drive them plus room treatment etc may well do

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My 2 cents, from an audiophile who has chased the best sound that my money can buy (and that ain’t much money at all) for over 50 years.

Headphones likely will never have the same physical, visceral impact on your body that speakers currently provide (but never say never). But the tradeoffs are worth considering, and for some of us, they provide a better solution than speakers, which have their own limitations. Clearly a benefit of listening to music via headphones (primarily closed-back models) is the privacy of listening without interfering with the people around you (and the isolation from the people and sounds in the environment around you) has value to many, as does portability of the listening space, which brings with it a known acoustic environment wherever you are listening. For many of us, a big part of the attraction is the ability to get high quality sound for a good deal less money. High-end speakers can cost as much as a house; while stratospherically-priced headphones are a fraction of that. Good sound from speakers requires good amplification, which can also expensive. Good cans benefit from good amplification as well, but it comes with a much lower price tag. Both of these listening modes require cables, but speaker cables are more expensive than headphone cables, and you generally need many more feet of speaker cable. And then there are the vibration isolators for the amps, speakers, and peripherals, as well as the power conditioners and all the other voodoo and black magic that many hobbyists find to be necessary. Again, similar tweaks exist in the world of headphones, but they can be had at a significantly lower cost.

Seriously dialing-in speakers also requires acoustic treatment for your room, and after you have done all that, you likely are left with a sweet-spot that is very small, meaning that, to fully receive the best that the speakers and system have to offer, only one person in the room can hear that level of refinement at a time. This, of course, is true of cans as well - but cans don’t pretend to be anything other than a personal listening experience.

I concede that the social aspect of listening to music is a great value that speakers provide, and one that headphones simply cannot. However, if you want to listen critically to music presented by your gear in the best possible manner, for many of us that becomes a personal experience anyway.

In the end, I can hear music presented in a manner that approaches the best sound quality available from speakers in a more affordable manner with headphones, and that experience is not limited to the sweet-spot chair in my listening room. I have discovered so much detail in my music collection listening to headphones than I ever did listening to speakers. I believe listening to music through speakers is a great and unique experience, but I also believe you hear a good deal more in the music when you listen through headphones.

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Today proved speakers were required to express my tastes in music to my kids. The house was in a whole group and no one could escape. Mwah Ha ha ha ha :smiling_imp::metal:

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I fully agree! And if you add sophisticated crossfeed and HRTF correction and head tracking as offered by software (BACCH4Mac) from Theoretical Applied Physics you will get a jaw dropping perception of 3D sound. And for those missing visceral bass shakes can always a a subwoofer or a body shaker!

I’m with you on that. I have to read my posts several times before submitting. My fingers and thumbs type quicker than my forum filter (brain) and I can get in trouble.

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Wel it’s kind of weird having dinner with friends (all) wearing cans :wink:

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Depends on the friends :wink:

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So true :slight_smile:

Yes, I agree. I use Hifiman He1000se, and they’re really great, especially in conjunction with my Pass headphone amp – but they can’t compare to listening to my speakers, Magnepan 20.7s, also with a Pass amp.

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It could be argued that you should be listening to the scintillating conversation not the hi fi so speaker quality is somewhat moot.

I think the debate is only real for “serious listeneing”

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Me again

My speakers dotted around my house are looking very sad and unloved. I’ve been mainly rocking headphones and have never enjoyed music so much as I do currently at this moment in time. It’s giving me extra focus on the music rather than distractions going on around me.

Might be upgrades coming to my head-fi rig!

Better than cell phones……

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I have a two-channel speaker system worth six-figures. I’m not saying this for any other reason to put in context that this simple combo is the very first alternative that I find as completely satisfying:

So yes, IMO headphones can be a good substitute for speakers.

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I used to go full on headphones because I was always lazy/annoyed with needing to deal with room acoustics using speakers.

As I kept upgrading my headphone chain, all my gear were speaker worthy so all I had to do was to buy speakers.

Fleetwood Devilles, love em, but looking to explore more brands speakers wise, as I am curious always and am very content with my electronics/chain. I am actually lately very curious about the Wilsons because so many people hate on them. I am also curious about the TAD speaker brand.

For the people who listen to headphones and look forward to going home to speakers, I can really relate to that, and I always found it frustrating to attempt to scale up IEMs. Headphones were satisfying but when comparing to speakers, it is just no comparison…

I used to fall in camp of the headphones being an all around better package due to value, no need for dealing with room, having option to listen with family members around without restraints, etc…

All those reasons are good reasons to be pro headphones but at end of day, if space, budget, room allows, speakers are truly kisses air.

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Over the years I always had a pair of headphones and like the rest of the audio bug that I have with my continuous upgrade program, I would also upgrade my cans from time to time. This is no where near as often as with the other audio gear. Maybe every 3 to 4 or 5 years.

Initially I would use them but always revert back to my desktop setup. I have a nice desktop setup.

In the last couple of years the Atmos catalog in Tidal has grown quite a bit. Listening to Atmos in my theater room has been very enoyable. It is the only audio source that even comes close to what Roon is about with regard to fidelity.

So lately at my desktop the majority of my listening have been thru my headphones. So much so this past year I purchase a Topping XLR headphone amp which was a hugh step up for me. While my current headphones are not XLR, this is going to be my first intro into XLR.

Now for Christmas I ordered me a pair of Audeze LCD X headphones configured for XLR. Really looking forward to that.

I have been going thru my entire library enjoying it very much and cannot wait for the LCDs to come in. Speakers will always have a place especially where people are involved, but my new critical listening now is the headphones thru Roon and my Atmos setup in no particular order.

–MD

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I’m in a ‘strange’ position at the mo’.

I’ve been without one of my Linn power amps for a week-or-so (it’s back in Scotland having its Dynamik power supply replaced), and I’ve been on headphones exclusively since then.

Yes, I miss the main system, but I’m equally amazed about how satisfying a simple headphone rig can be :grinning:

The combination of a FiiO R7 with HiFiMAN HE6se V2’s is just sublime.

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Fully agree. I love listening on my headphone options. Main hifi rig is barely used these days.

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