Artist images very slow to appear

Hey all, just wanted to provide an update on this.

First, thanks for the videos. It is really helpful to see what you guys are actually experiencing.

We did some investigation today. In a simulated environment, we have worked out how to produce behavior similar to many of the videos you guys have posted. Currently, we have to turn several “knobs” to simulate behavior like this.

We’ve validated that our caching system and CDN is working as expected (it is), which mostly isolates this to the Roon application itself. We found a couple of areas that could be optimized. We’ve also improved the diagnostic logging within the app around this topic, so in future releases we should be able to debug stuff like this more directly based on your system logs.

This is a little bit of a “before” / “after” of those optimizations:

Before:

After:

Among other “knobs”, I am VPN’d from the US into Belgium for both of these videos, which is a fair bit worse than actually being in Belgium because I’m subject an extra ~120ms delay on everything that someone in Europe would not experience.

We are not done working on this yet. I am hoping that with a little bit more information, we can do some more work on this before making a release and seeing how it goes for you guys.

Anyways, for those affected, if you have the time, I’d appreciate answers to the following:

  • What is your internet connection speed? (please post a result from speedtest.net)

  • What are the specifications of the display device where you are seeing the problem?

  • What are the specifications of your Roon Core hardware?

  • How many tracks are in your music library? (check the home screen in Roon)

  • What is the network connection between the display device and the core? Same machine? Ethernet? Wifi? If Wifi, what router and/or access points are you using?

Thanks, all.

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This was against a local provider in Dublin

If we test against Cloudflare, NJ & Cloudflare, CA

iPad Pro 9.7 iOS 15.2 (speednet test from this device)

ROCK on a NUC5i3MYHE with 8GB RAM, 240GB SATA SSD

WiFi AP: Edimax WAP1750 on POE CAT6a wiring
(EDIMAX - Indoor Access Points - AC1750 - 3 x 3 AC Dual-Band Wall-Mount PoE Access Point)
Bandsteering of devices to 5GHz based on min RSSI
5GHz bands are not congested. Channel mapping can be provided

ROCK based NUC into Netgear GS108e 8-port Gigabit switch (16Gbps bandwidth) along with NAS units holding local music library, all CAT6a wiring

Internet Firewall/NAT Router: Cisco RV340 Gigabit router
(Cisco RV340 Dual WAN Gigabit VPN Router - Cisco).
Allows full 942 Mbps download (i.e 1Gbps) for wired devices on Gigabit backbone.
No additional Cisco Security software enabled, just port based Firewall. Any VPNs are client based (work laptop)

ISP Modem set in “Modem only” mode to bypass internal switch, NAT & Firewall, i.e. WAN connection out.

A segment of my network diagram, from Jan ‘20


The only change has been the RV340 replacing the RV130 following the introduction of the 1Gbps Internet service, in July ‘20 & RV130 was no longer receiving firmware updates.

Hope this helps.

Update
This is the internet speed of a Win11 machine connected into the Gigabit router


As such, I have capacity to serve Gigabit traffic both as LAN or Internet originated traffic to wired devices, such as the NUC based ROCK server.

Hence my requirement to have all relevant data, information and images relating to my music library cached and stored on the NUC dedicated to running the Roon Core serverunder ROCK, so that the controlling Roon Remote devices, which are likely to be portable Wifi connected devices are not having to make calls to remote internet-based servers to obtain this metadata at the point of being required. That this information is just served within the local network and not via the CDN.

If the ROCK server makes background caching checks with the CDN during the night, or at periodic intervals and pulls down updated images and other data, so be it, everything is connected 24//7.
Just as long as it can be ready for when I pick up my iPad and open Roon and it is all there instantly.

As such, I think this is a hybrid approach of the latest CDN approach, for the latest and best images that the Valiance engine can serve but with local caching, or pre-population on ROCK or other servers dedicated to running the Roon Core server.
Maybe it’s then different to when a general-purpose machine is being used, where the caching for pre-population with associated database, traffic usage requirement may be a problem as that machine is being used for other purposes as well as running Roon Core server.

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Okey, heres my data. Located in mid-Sweden using Telenor as ISP:


Sppedtest selects a nearby server, so i selected one of Cloudflares servers on the US East coast also:

These were aquired via RDP on my Roon Core Win 11 in the scheme below:


Music library is local (and same) to each of these servers, and is roughly between 10K and 12K albums in various resolutions, mostly RedBook but a lot of HiRez and DSD also, resulting in a library of about 7-8Tb. Around 3-400 albums from Qobuz is also added, no other music services as of now.

My control devices are mainly iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 and iPad 9.7" 2018, no big difference there.
I also occasionally use my HP Elitebook 840G6 as Roon device and the experience is very similar to your first video @brian .
The iPads are connected on a very good 5Ghz WLAN and the HP is utilizing Wifi6 on the same router. (When file copying, well over 1200Mbps)

I agree in full with this sentiment! I couldn’t care less about daily updates of artist and album images, they MUST be cached locally once, and on every manual update of the library (or whatever mechanism).

To be quite frank, the quality of art and illustrations really took a nose dive with Valence… If the community effort actually improves anything in the end i don’t know yet, but i suspect that very few has got an eye for image editing and the knack for identifying whats suitable and not.

(And to be honest, i bought Roon so i wouldn’t need to spend man hours on editing images. I provide all of my albums with images anyway, to accomodate UPnP devices and Bluesound devices, but Roon did a good job previously, with improving my basic work)

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Thanks for the update, Brian - details of our setup as requested:-

Internet speed:-

Devices where I see the issue:-
iPad Pro 10.5” 256GB storage & iPadOS 15.2
iPhone 13 Pro 256GB storage & iOS 15.2

Roon Core:-
ROCK running on NUC8i5 with 16GB RAM & 250GB Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2

How many tracks?
69,134

Connection between display device and core:-
Wifi via ISP (BT) provided router. Router and core connected via Netgear GS105 switch

Michael

A post was split to a new topic: Character limit in thread titles and posts

they have to store pictures locally in the NUC/computer/SSD/whatever… that approach to force people to download all the time always the same stuff doesn’t work! NOT reliable enough!

question: why do we have to spend our time in talking about this bugs (that this is a bug!) instead of listening music?

info for Brian that is asking about connection speed, numebr of titles, hardware configuration, etc

  • speed: download 80Mbs - upload 20Mbs
  • hardware: NUC with Roon Rock, build EXACTLY as for your specs, with EXACTLY the components suggested
  • tablet: Apple Ipad, one year old … not the cheapest one
  • additional memory: external SSD connected to NUC, Hikvision SSD 128Gb… for Roon backup
  • connection: all lan, no wi-fi (cable cat5)
  • number of titles: 860

I agree with your sentiments, I had a little go on it then got bored very quickly and asked myself why I should be doing this. .So now the answer is to choose not to contribute and let others make decisions on how they look for the better or worse. I am not looking forward to when bios and reviews get the same level of user access to edit or change them. Any way this is going off topic.

Internet ISP is Virgin Media 350mb/s speed down 35mb/s up.

Google Pixel 4, Windows Surface Laptop 3, Macbook M1 1st gen (wired)

Core is an 7i7 16gb ram, 128gb SSD, usb3 SSD storage for music, running ROCK. 75638 tracks

Core is wired on gigabit ethernet, remotes most on wireless using 5ghz, one mac using wired. Router is Unifi USG3, mixture of Uniif switches and Unifi AC Pro and AC lite APs. IGMP snooping is active.

Here is an odd example where the artist pictures don’t show on the info page. Click through they do show although in both cases it’s just initials. The images are cached but just don’t show on all views.



they should tattoo this phrase on their forehead… so that every time they look in the mirror they can remember that we are interested in listening to music and having a reliable service, not tombstone style pictures

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Thanks for looking into this and for providing an update. In my case the environment spec is as follows:

UK BT Broadband router, 74 Mbps down / 19 Mbps up
Display device = iPad Air 2 iOS 14.8 (i.e. home wifi connection)
Main Core = ROCK i7 NUC8 wired to unmanaged Netgear switch (in turn wired to BT router)

  • backup core on a Synology 1520+
    Library ~ 24K tracks
    No other access points apart from the BT router

My answers are embedded above.

The missing metadata on the now playing screen in Roon Radio occurs on both Windows 10 and iPad control devices.

The majority of my Roon devices (Windows PCs/laptops/convertibles and Android phones) show very acceptable performance, but for the sake of completeness, here is my worst case.

It’s a Lenovo ThinkPad 10, which since the start of my Roon journey back in 2016, has been in occasional use as a Roon Control. However, the latest change to image handling has probably brought that to an end. Performance is now abysmal.

Internet connection speed:

Display device: Intel HD Graphics on an Intel Atom Z3795

Roon Core: ROCK on an Intel Core i5 NUC (7th gen)

Library: 57479 tracks

Wifi connection between Control and Core; Fritz!box 7530 router and Fritz 1200 & 1750e repeaters.

That was kinda’ horrible actually. But you are saying that all other controllers in your network perform “reasonably well”? As in populating images with short to no waiting?

Here’s what it’s like on my desktop PC (using Page Up/Down keys to scroll). It’s acceptable.

This is on Windows 11 running on an Intel Core i5-11600K with wired ethernet.

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Yes, I haven’t thrown in, the Roon Core performance, of my HP Elitebook 2540p, which despite being a Core i7 with 8GB RAM and 160GB SSD, as it doesn’t run Win10 (as I still need XP Virtual PC foRr certain legacy applications), so it is on Win7 and the Intel HD graphics driver got left behind and was not updated by Microsoft. Despite this, this machine runs all the latest versions of Chrome & Firefox browsers, a recent version of MS Office, MP3Tag, PowerampDB, InSSIDer, Winmerge, etc. perfectly.
Since Roon 1.8, it has not displayed images, Artist or Album artwork very well at all, as there is something amiss in image caching for this driver. I would like Roon to work on this platform, but I understand they can’t support all Windows versions as they do with previous MacOS and Mac platforms.

And for a further comparison, this is on a Surface Go 2 running Windows 11, connected via Wifi. Performance could be better, but it’s usable (just). Problem is, the images don’t seem to be cached between restarts of the Roon client.

I’ve been trying to live with it, but I honestly don’t think it is acceptable. Kinda defeats the reason to have a core if everything’s loaded dynamically. Aha! Now I see where this is going…

3 Likes

I jst complained about the album art loading slow,I wo der if the cause of the stutter and lag when scrolling on my ipad pro/iphone 13 is the result of roon changing the way they cache the art work

Quite some time since my initial post regarding album art loading slowly. Very pleased Roon has not responded or remedied the issue.

I hope you are wrong!