Backing Up Roon Database

Thanks for those latest ideas Noris. This is making me go deep into territory I’m not totally comfortable with. But I’ve followed the instructions as detailed in all 3 suggestions. Made and saved the changes suggested, tried again to make Roon backup, same message again. “Unexpected error”

I do run Norton Antivirus on the laptop in question. But I’m really loathe to start fiddling around with that as well.

If I’m silent for next few days, please don’t interpret as lack of interest.

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Hi @David_Carter,

No worries, thanks for trying that. I did see previous reports that Norton can cause issues with Roon and there should be a way to temporarily disable it as a test to see if that changes anything. Here are some instructions:

Firewall:
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v64908971_ns_retail_en_us

Auto Protect:
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v116457581_ns_retail_en_us

Thanks,
Noris

Hello again Noris. Back in touch.

Tried as you suggested, and disabled both Norton Smart Firewall and Autoprotect. Then tried again to Network Share, both to F: drive of my kaptop Churston, and also to my Users account on the Churston laptop.

Tried with standard network path style, also using IP numeral address and smb style. All failed again with “unexplained error”.

So, another nice idea which hasn’t worked sadly.

I’ve only got 3 days left of my month’s free trial of Roon. I’d really be wanting to buy a membership, but am concerned still about ongoing inability to set up a regular Roon backup.

Advice please?

Hi @David_Carter,

Sorry to hear that my suggested troubleshooting steps have not resolved the issue. I am going to be discussing this mount error with the QA team at our next meeting to see if they have further suggestions as to why it could occur. I appreciate your patience while until we have a chance to discuss.

Thanks,
Noris

Thanks Noris. Really appreciate that you guys at Roon want to help me get this problem sorted. Also thanks for the 30 day extension on the trial membership. I really do want to end up with a Life Membership if we can sort this backup problem out.

Just had a couple of random thoughts that may (or may not) be having an impact.

  1. As suggested weeks ago by BlackJack, I’m using a 32-bit version of Roon on my laptop (this solved the slow loading of album covers problem)

  2. My laptop is using the direct Wifi on my TalkTalk modem and the modem password. The Innuos is connected via LAN cable to a Devolo internet booster (distance from modem prevents direct connection to modem). Therefore, the Innuos connects with the password of the Devolo, rather than with the password of the modem.

However, as you’ve seen from past screenshots of the Network visible on the laptop, both the laptop (Churtston) and the ZenMini show as being on the same network.

I’m presuming point 2 should be having no effect on the operation. It’s the same Wifi network, just being bounced on and through all the electric points via a booster master/slave combination.

Dave

Hi @David_Carter,

Thanks for letting me know that additional info! I too wonder if the Devolo booster could be causing issues here, we have seen issues surrounding powerline adapters in the past but I can’t recall any threads where sharing files over the network was investigated.

I did speak to the team today regarding your case and we have a few other suggestions as to troubleshoot this further:

  1. If you have another PC on your network, can you please check to see if the share location works outside of Roon? You can access the network drive by opening Windows Explorer from the other PC and then typing in the non-smb location (e.g. \\CHURSTON\F) and then it would be interesting to see if this works. (For Mac you can use Connect to Server).

  2. We have been searching around and found one thread where the user notes that you need to go myinnuous.com to configure the USB backup option. This may have changed since the thread was created, but it would be worth a check to see if this setting allows the backup location to show up on the Innuous itself. Thread link: (Roon backup for Innuos ZENith).

If my above two suggestions don’t resolve this issue we can also reach out directly to Innuous to clarify this further and discuss other potential solutions, but I am hoping that my suggestions above will help.

Thanks,
Noris

OK Noris. Reporting back on those last 2 thoughts of yours.

  1. Have opened up another PC on my network, and from that PC I can see my main laptop Churston on the Network, and within that can drill down to the F: folder. Presume that was the question you were asking about share locations…

  1. I’d already seen and read through that thread topic about configuring backups in My Innuos, and fiddling with the Automatic toggle. Tried that several times a couple of weeks ago but with no change achieved to what was on offer / visible as a backup destination.

The relevant Innuos music library backup options are *Nothing; * To a USB drive (have that one selected); * To a Network Folder.

As I’ve got a 2TB USB attached to a port at the back of the Innuos Zen Mini to perform the Innuos Music Library backup, within the Innuos backup options offered I’ve got that option set as “To a USB Drive”. If I were to switch that setting over to “To a Network Folder”, that would mean that my Innuos Music Library tried to backup to my laptop, which is absolutely not what I want to do.

Hi @David_Carter,

Thank you for trying out this test.

We’re always happy to debug any issues related to Roon, and we’ve also had some discussions with @Innuos recently about the fastest way to resolve issues on these devices.

Since the location you’re trying to backup to seems to be properly shared on the network and is accessible from another, I’m wondering if you’ve spoken with Innuos about this issue yet and have noted this new finding?

We’ve begun working closely with the team at Innuos to make sure that these types of issues are resolved, but as these devices are not manufactured by us, we don’t have all of the insight into the exact details of their system.

When it comes to these types of issues, Innuos will have greater knowledge of what may be going wrong, and they have a direct line to our team as well. For details on reaching out to Innuos, check out the contact page of their website. We appreciate your patience and cooperation here, David.

Please feel free to reach out if you have any further questions about this after speaking with the team over at Innuos, we’ll do whatever it takes to make sure this gets resolved for you.

Thanks,
Noris

Call Innuos. And speak with @Innuos or @Innuos2 (Nuno Vitorino). He will do a remote log in section with you and take care of it in no time.

You can actually do both when it comes to backing up Roon database. You can set to be backed up to the USB storage you have attached to your Zenith, AND to your network folder on a NAS or similar. That’s what I do.

Thank you again Noris for your help and patience with this issue.

I’m going to contact Innuos again as you suggest, and also follow up the potentially helpful comment from Thyname.

That seems to hint at the need to change the default backup destination within the Innuos setup from USB to either NAS or Network Folder in order to achieve a Roon Backup.

I’ll keep you posted on progress…

Thanks so much for your reply to this thread Thyname. As you can see, I’ve been wrestling with this Roon Backup problem for ages.

What you say here sounds very interesting. Can I please ask you some questions about the procedure you adopt to achieve the 2 different types of backups.

My Roon Core is on the Innuos ZenMini. Within Innuos I have backups set to go to “USB” (the 2TB storage drive attached to the ZenMini) and the toggle set to “Automatic”. That all works fine for the music folders stored on ZenMini.

But when I go into the Roon settings and try to create a path for a Roon backup, the only options I see are the Music folder of the ZenMini or Dropbox. If I try to “add network share” to a folder on my laptop, it fails to make the connection. We’ve established that the laptop and its folders are definitely open to network sharing.

When you yourself create a Roon Backup, do you first have to go into the Backups section of Innuos, and change the default from “USB” to either “NAS” or “Shared Folder”? And then presumably go into Roon Settings and tell it the destination path for the backup you want it to perform?

In other words, are you having to change the default in the Innuos backups section from one setting to another in order to achieve the 2 different types of backup in two different types of location?

I am a bit confused. Are you looking to backup the music, or the Roon database?

If the latter, it is totally unrelated to Innuos web settings. You go to Roon Backups and that’s where you set the Backups. You only do it once, then set it to do it automatically every X number of days.

Once you clarified the above, my second question is whether you are trying to create Backups to the USB drive attached to Innuos, or to another network drive (I.e. NAS)

There’s no problem with backing up the music on the Innuos. That goes fine to the USB attached to the ZenMini.

My problems are totally with getting a Backup of the Roon Database to work. Whatever I try, it fails to see any network path I create.

Sounds from your reply that, as I thought was the case, the two are not related, and that however you set up backups to function in Innuos should have no relation to how you separately set up a Roon Backup.

Thanks for your input

OK thanks.

Let’s try to backup your Roon database to your Innuos directly attached drive first (the one you attach directly to Zen Mini via USB):

First, go to Innuos backup settings on browser, and start backing up the music like you normally do. To that directly attached drive.

As soon as you hit “backup “ , go to Roon backup settings, start a new backup path, and see if that drive now appears as available.

I’ll try that again in a bit. Not in same place as my Innuos at present.

I have previously managed to get Roon database to backup within the Music folder of the Zen Mini.

So, I ended up with folder “RoonBackUps” visible there within Music, along with “Compressed” and “CD Quality”.

BUT… The next time Innuos runs a backup to the attached USB, it keeps failing and needing to be manually restarted. Which rather suggests that it really doesn’t like “RoonBackUps” being stored within the “Music” folder.

Other threads have suggested that this is not at all an ideal location for RoonBackUps to be stored in.

All that my Roon offers me as a backup destination is either ZenMini/Music, or Dropbox. I can’t seem to drill back to just ZenMini, for example.

I did previously try to create a backup within ZenMini/ZenMinistoragedevice/, in other words outside the Music folder, but this failed when it tried to run.

And also FYI.

The ZenMini storage device only shows in the Roon backup settings window for a brief period while the Innuos backup is running. It then disappears from view

That is exactly what’s happening. The Roon database backup can only be created then subsequently utilized when a music library backup to the attached drive is started.

PM me your email address, and I can hook you up with Innuos direct.

ZThanks Thyname. I’ll run another Innuos backup this morning, grab the path to the Zen backup device in Room, and try another Roon backup. But I expect it’ll fail again.

Can I ask please, what do you do your backups to? Especially the Roon one. Attached USB? Laptop?

I did email Innuos2 yesterday but no answer yet.

Very kind of you to offer to use your direct contact to them. My email is [Moderated] David Carter is my name. I have had some chat previously by email with someone called Stephen before purchasing Innuos

Hi @David_Carter,

Mods have removed your email address from the above post as public forums get targeted by spam webcrawlers that harvest email addresses and mean you will be forever plagued with steaming piles of spam.

Use a private message (PM) to exchange emails with other users. If you click on their avatar you will see a message option,

Cheers !

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