That is not my question, Stefano, but the way the volume knob works.
I didnāt realized it has a dac on board ⦠likely it converts any analog input to digital ⦠but to be sure you should ask Rotel
On their web page they say āa TI precision volume control ICā. So likely it is analog one.
You made me happy
Talking about analog and digital volumen control, just for funā¦
From the ADI-2 DAC manual:
āThe ADI-2 DAC deliberately avoids an analog level adjustment by means of a potentiometer. Its digital version surpasses an analog one in practically every conceivable point.ā
From de iFi Audio web, in regard NEO iDSD 2:
āThe volume control is analogue, which is superior to any digital volume control.ā
In the Hi-Fi Universe/Multiverse seems that A AND NOT A = TRUE
I cannot speak for all opinions or pre amps, but I do not think any pre amp add value to the RME ADI analogue balanced output and there is no analogue volume that will superseed the HQPlayer digital. #IMHO
What I do know, is that all steps and especially analogue signal transfer degrade the signal integrity. It is not possible to add dynamics by adding additional gear. Now, this is for DACās with good solid pre amp implemented. Have not had any others, so perhaps the gain structure would benefit in orther cases using a pre amp.
The volume control can be done digitally or in analog domain without a loss of fidelity. But a proper separate preamp will probably change the sound quality one way or another. If itās better or worse than the integrated volume control of the dac, is a matter of opinion.
Iām currently comparing the t+a dac200 with its own very well made analog preamp vs bypassing its preamp and taking a line out to a separate preamp (Holo Serene). These two options sound very different and very good, both of them. With dac200 directly connected to my active speakers, the sound quality is more open and crystal clear. This way the sound is also more honest and true. Then again with Serene, the sound is slightly warmer, smoother and thicker. Serene also gives more power and authority with a punchier and even more immediate sound. Itāll be a difficult choice between these two options.
Iām trying with a Burson Soloist 3X Performance preamp and therefore removing the Roon/HQP volume control.
I havenāt listened too much yet, but I immediately found a greater background noise certainly linked to a signal-to-noise ratio due to the preamp which is normally not bad.
I have 3 levels of gain adjustment, on the minimum level it would be fine, but this requires me to push the preamp volume quite far to around 3/4 of the volume potentiometer. With gain at the midrange level, the volume setting is correct, but I hear a slight parasitic background noise without music.
In short, Iām going to do other tests but I think Iāll go back to the Roon/HQP volume control without using a preamp, because in this case there will be no background noiseā¦
Looking from purely technical perspective, well made digital volume control is unbeatable in quality compared to analog one. But there are other aspects where using analog volume control may be favorable. So as usual in life, things are not black and white.
Still non Cyan2 at home ?
Mine is now on the way⦠Estimated to arrive on Friday.
I am using a Topping pre90 pre-amp with my Topping D90 Dac, fed by HQ Player embedded over local ethernet. Its a good pre-amp to listen to but the remote control was rubbish, so added a logitech controller for volume. I have wondered about swapping the D90 DAC for my RME ADI-2 DAC, but I would probably retain the pre in the chain. I did have one high volume incident and I think the pre saved my speakers and hearing! Despite digging around trying to find the cuprit, I never did come to an answer apart from leaving a pre-amp in the chain.
I do like the look of the Benchmark LA4 pre-amp.
ADI-2 allows you to adjust the reference level, so you can to some extent limit the maximum possible volume. In addition, some active speakers and power amps have sensitivity adjustment that allows you to limit maximum volume and optimize gain structure.
For example Benchmark AHB2 has three input sensitivity settings in the back panel:
And sometimes DAC output levels are suitable. For example Holo Audio has pretty low DSD output voltage, around 1.5V and thus it is less likely to reach too high output levels. While for example on Ferrum Wandla I have set the output level trim to -12 dB to avoid amplifier input stages (before analog volume control) from clipping⦠OTOH, Wandla allows me to choose digital or analog volume control.
Finally, I came back with the Roon/HQP volume control without going through the preamp.
On the RME ADI, I have 4 gain settings, I put the third level i.e. +7db, and on the Burson headphone amp, I put it at the middle gain.
Overall, it seems to fit both my ATC active speakers and my 2 headphones (Audeze LCD X and Hifiman XS).
Does a digital volume control on an analog signal inevitably involve an A/D - Volume control - D/A sequence? Is there other ways to accomplish a digital volume control on analog signals?
If the A/D - Volume control - D/A sequence would be the only way to proceed, a device with digital volume control between a DSD Direct DAC and the loudspeakers would make the path⦠letās say: āless pureā. Have I a misconception?
Yes. The digital bitstream either includes the volume or infers the volume. Iām painfully simplifying here but think of it as a scale 0-100. That scale then translates to an analog voltage. 0-100 may reference 0-4 volts for example. ādigital volumeā is exactly that, itās adjusting the bits to move the voltage. If something is mastered with peaks of, say, 90 (never reaching full volume of the available bitstream), and you want to turn that down then the entire bitstream shifts downward resulting in the output voltage shifting downward. Again, painfully oversimplifying here.
But, the answer is yes to your question. An analog, voltage input signal, must be converted to digital via ADC. to apply a ānewā volume in the digital domain before being converted back to voltage via the DAC.
No, since we are talking about doing it in the player before the data is sent out to DAC.
Yes, that would be the case. Thatās why we want to do the digital volume control before the data enters analog domain (IOW, before DAC). It is best performed as part of upsampling and other processing.
Letās say we want to do room correction also for vinyl playback cases like I am doing. Then I just run the analog signal through RME ADI-2 Pro ADC, then the digital room correction and volume control comes as a no-cost byproduct of this path. Then the data is sent out to DAC again. End result coming to my ears is much better than without this extra path⦠And I can run this DSD256 in - DSD256 out. Or for example 768/32 PCM in and DSD512 out.
In that configuration, I guess, after the DAC a power amplifier + loudspeakers (or active loudspeakers/studio monitors - with no further DSP).
Yes, exactly, thatās the idea.
You can also see the potential danger if you need a lot of attenuation for normal listening levels. Especially if itās not HQPlayer Embedded running on a dedicated computer. For example Windows and HQPlayer Desktop it is different thing. Thatās why Iām talking about gain matching. Where the maximum possible volume is not too bad.
Gain matching is also beneficial with analog volume control. If your DAC outputs letās say 2 V and then your listening volume on āpreampā (should be called āpreattā) is -36 dB. And then regular power amp gain is +36 dB. The net result is 0 dB gain with 2V to loudspeakers, but first with unnecessary attenuation of -36 dB followed by +36 dB of gain. Which just results in massive SNR loss⦠In this scenario it is technically better to just get started with 36 dB lower signal and omit the back and forth gain structure in analog domain. But the potential danger is that for example Windows decides to bang some notification sound at 0 dBā¦
In optimal case your maximum listening volume setting is just a little shy of 0 dB, without going back and forth.
Thanks @jussi_laako. I for one donāt take enough account of this, I probably need to work it out for each listening area which should improve my understanding.