Blind test $3000 LUMIN D2 with Sbooster sounds the same as a $600 Bluesound Node

Measurements? If a tree falls in the forest and there’s no one to hear it, does it make a sound?

If the listeners couldn’t tell the difference, maybe both units are “good enough”.

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100% Agreed … go with what gets the job done.

There’s no point paying more for a solution which provides no audible benefit in your system. I gave up on “most” of this audiophile stuff a long time ago.

These days I simply use a RPi4 via USB into my Motu Mk5 lite… powered by a quality linear supply. Sounds great. The front end is not quite as good as the best source I have tried (Pi2aes with linear power - which by the way is super good) but its good enough, and provides me with multichannel audio capability for my active speakers.

Don’t know why this guy has to take 10 minutes of everyone’s time to say something simple: D/A conversion is a solved problem with cheap pre-packaged solutions provided by modern manufacturing processes. There’s no real point to wacky expensive DACs anymore.

But “hi fi” audio is a luxury market. And products and prices in such markets are not controlled by rational utility considerations. If you go to business school, there are whole courses on what makes luxury retail click.

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Mid tier DACs are so transparent and accurate these days that you don’t need to spend thousands to get ultimate transparency and accuracy.

In fact, I stopped watching HiFi reviews many years ago, because most are nonsense, paid reviews and highly subjective.

IMHO, device cost is never a good indication of quality, or a guarantee you are buying something that is well engineered or sounds better than product X. You need to try the device in your system to know.

For instance, I prefer the sound of my Motu Mk5 lite, v’s my RME ADI 2 dac fs.
Its less than 50% the price of the RME dac.

Both DAC’s measure transparently, I.e. Excellent SNR, but they do sound different and the Motu is my preference.

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Which server did you use for Roon?

As the system cost $ 65000 (and you mention another system costing $ 500 K (is it even possible to assemble a system that expensive? what for?) and none of you heard a difference, wouldn’t it be time to start selling your systems and replace them with cheaper ware? Based on your own impressions, you have clearly been bamboozled by HIFI hyperbole and status anxiety? :wink:

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If no one is there, there is no tree and no forest. There is only falling.

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Oooh, I like it!

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D2 is the one with the Wolfson DAC. It is a disappointing model - I really think they should discontinue it. Lumins do not come alive until the top models, the X1 is pretty good.

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Tests like this don’t prove there is no difference any human listening to any material under any conditions will ever hear a difference between an inexpensive and expensive digital source, but they do suggest any differences, if they exist, are far less than the hype would suggest.

I first came to a conclusion like this upon reading of a test at a Stereophile show between an Adcom 555 and VTL 300 amplifier (I was unfortunately unable to participate since it was on the other side of the continent from where I live). There was a slight statistical bias indicating an ability of the audience–presumably mostly audiophiles–to hear a difference, but nothing like the reviewers waxing about the virtues of the tube amp would suggest.

I don’t believe a null test by itself says much of anything about audibility. For one thing, you listen to amps with actual speakers attached.

What does say something was Carver’s challenge to “clone” the transfer function of a Stereophile beloved amp with his relatively cheap solid state amp. I believe he did use a null technique to achieve this. Holt was the only one on the panel able to hear the difference to any level of statistical significance.

I found out years later, reading “Audio Critic” and curmudgeon Peter Axcel, that by the terms of a law suit and counter-suit, both parties were forbidden from referring to this episode.

Crikey, we learn something everyday, I’ve just discovered I’m not a music lover :wink:

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Haha it was about the same as I discovered that unless I streamed the highest of high res files that I wasn’t an audiophile - whatever that is.
I’m glad you took it in the way I meant anyway!

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I did something similar. When I got my Lyngdorf MP40 (a completely digital Pre-Amp), I wondered if I would still need my Naim ND5 XS2 (a streaming DAC you can get for 2900 Euro) or could just use a Hifiberry Digi+ (200 Euro) or a Raspberry Pi 4B (100 Euro).

So I attached the Naim via Digital Out (BNC to Coax), attached the Hifiberry via Digital Out (Coax), and compared. I could hear no difference. I also compared the Hifiberry to a mere Raspberry connected via USB, and there was also no difference. I kept the Raspberry and will sell the Naim.

For the tests, I used a pair of B&W 802 D3 (with a Rotel RB1590). For playback, I used different FLAC files that were ripped from CDs.

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Isn’t science fun?

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Here is the full picture of the system

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Why don’t you list your systems components and perhaps that could be the reason you don’t believe more expensive DACs can sound better. Some people that say they don’t hear differences in components just have a low resolving system.

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Krell 300i amp
B&W 801 D4
Kimber carbon cable 11 Gauge
All power plugs are audio quest hurricane
All interconnects are audio quest fire
Blue sound node
LUMIN D2 with SBOOSTER

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When comparing endpoints, I always ensure all endpoints play the same track, with small time offsets. I can then instantly switch between the sources, listening to the music I just heard, flipping back and forward.

Comparing from memory is impossible, and not reliable, at least for me.

There are so many factors at play here, but I do believe differences in streamer SQ exists; Especially when comparing sources using different connection protocols, I.e. SPDIF, USB, AES, I2s, etc.

An example:
Instantly switching between my RPI4 USB to RPI4 Pi2aes SPDIF, into my RME ADI2 DAC fs, there were more similarities than differences in the macro sense (Dynamics and leading edges), but listening more critically shows the Pi2aes renders longer decay tails on drums and cymbals.

Further comparing to a Node N130, Cambridge CXN V2, Pioneer N70a, Nuc, shows more differences.

The difference is small, most people would not listen so critically, but the difference is there. Whether this difference is source or DAC its difficult to say.