Brand New Nucleus | Can't Play to Any Sonos Device

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Roon Core Machine

Nucleus +

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Ubiquiti Dream Machine Pro, Nucleus Directly connected

Connected Audio Devices

About 20 Sonos Speakers from SL Ones to Play 5’s, some wireless, some direct ethernet connect

Number of Tracks in Library

Just started, under 100 tracks

Description of Issue

Excited to receive new Roon Nucleus +, purchased to organize my library and mostly use my existing and substantial investment in Sonos speakers to play my library.

Roon sees all of the Sonos Devices and shows them available as either AirPlay or Sonos Streaming. I configure them in AUDIO settings, then when I go to play something, I can choose any Sonos speaker, but nothing plays. When choosing an sonos speaker configured as AirPlay, it lets me start playing something but it just sits there at 0:000 without ever playing, no error. When choosing a Sonos speaker as Sonos Streaming, it comes back within a few seconds and says it lost control of the audio device.

Possibly I’m missing something as a newbie, but what? I was happy and impressed the Roon immediately saw all of my Sonos speakers, but bummed I can’t play to any of them.

[RBM (René)]

@Brett_Henrichsen

When choosing a Sonos speaker as Sonos Streaming, it comes back within a few seconds and says it lost control of the audio device.

Is your Sonos system up to date? This sounds a lot like a problem that was introduced with Sonos system update 15.2. Many users reported happiness restored after updating to 15.3.

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Hey RBM, thanks for the info. I just checked and my Mac Sonos controller/app was on 15.2, but all speakers show they are on 15.3. Now updated, everything on 15.3.

I’m now able to get Roon to play to a few of my Sonos pairs over Airplay, but anytime I try to use Sonos Streaming, it comes back with “Roon lost control of the audio device” every time after a few seconds.

What are the next things I could try - is this a Network/router issue?

[connor]

Hi @Brett_Henrichsen,

Thank you for your post and for your patience as the team investigates your report.

As the moderators pointed out, there was a known connectivity issue affecting Sonos S1 and S2 firmware devices running 15.2 that was resolved with 15.3. The issue manifested with the same error you’re receiving when users attempted to play back to individual or grouped Sonos Zones via the Sonos network protocol in Roon. Using Airplay was a workaround to the issue. You can read more here: Sonos - “Roon lost control of the audio device” after Sonos Update [Resolved: Update Sonos Firmware]

If you’ve updated to 15.3 and are still encountering the error (as well as Airplay connectivity issues, then the trouble likely stems from networking issues and not the since-resolved Sonos bug. I recommend rebooting your Sonos devices once each to be sure the 15.3 update is fully in place.

1. You mention that some Sonos devices are ethernet-connected, some are WiFi. Do you have a mesh network in addition to the UDM Pro router? If so, how many access points do you have in place?

2. Is there a second router in addition to the UDM Pro (like an ISP-provided gateway, for instance)?

3. Do you have UPnP enabled in the UDM Pro? What about multicast DNS? These options are likely available in the router’s settings and both will need to be enabled to support Sonos/Airplay streaming.

4. We’ve taken a closer look at automated diagnostics sent to your servers from your Nucleus+, and it appears routine outbound requests from the device are often failing due to unclassified local network errors. It’s possible this is the result of a firewall or other network security in place. Are you using a VPN, by chance?

We’ll keep an eye out for your response. Thank you!

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Hi there, thanks for the quick response and effort to help!

Ok, I’ve rebooted all Sonos devices and all are showing 15.3 (which they showed before the reboot, but this was our sanity check)… I’m still getting the “Roon lost control of the audio device” shortly after trying to start a track playing. I agree our next issue might be network, but am lost on what to do next, so here are answers to your questions:

1. You mention that some Sonos devices are ethernet-connected, some are WiFi. Do you have a mesh network in addition to the UDM Pro router? If so, how many access points do you have in place?

What I mean here is that I have directly connected as many Sonos speakers as I can to ethernet, and rest are connecting wirelessly to network. I have several Unify Mesh Network adapters connected to the UDMPro (my entire network is all Unify), so there are a variety of their AccessPoints and Beacons connected and repeating the WiFi network around the house.

2. Is there a second router in addition to the UDM Pro (like an ISP-provided gateway, for instance)?
   No, the UDMPro is the only router, it’s directly connected to Google Fiber (we’re using their "bring your own router plan) so their GoogleFiber jack goes directly into the UDMPro which is our sole router and providing DHCP to network.

3. Do you have UPnP enabled in the UDM Pro? What about multicast DNS? These options are likely available in the router’s settings and both will need to be enabled to support Sonos/Airplay streaming.
   Multicast DNS was enabled, but UPnP was not. I’ve now activated UPnP and NAT Port Mapping Protocol (see attached two screenshots) in my UDM Pro, but sadly this isn’t stopping my Roon Lost Control of Audio Device error.

4. We’ve taken a closer look at automated diagnostics sent to your servers from your Nucleus+, and it appears routine outbound requests from the device are often failing due to unclassified local network errors. It’s possible this is the result of a firewall or other network security in place. Are you using a VPN, by chance?

I’m not using a VPN. I’m not sure if there are any other firewall or network security running on the UDM Pro but I can’t find anything of that nature to change or enable.

Thanks for your help… 2 days in and want to cry that my new $3500 Nucleus can’t stream to my Sonos which is why I invested in this amazing box.

[Brett_Henrichsen]

@Connor any updates or ideas? sadly frustrated I can’t use my $3500 Nucleus for anything at all because of this…

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Hi Support,

Sadly I have a brand new $3500 Nucleus that won’t stream to Sonos. I created a ticket here with the issue days ago… there was one follow up and then nothing.

I don’t have $3500 to blow on something that doesn’t work, and this is needed to work soon for events happening at the house. I urgently need support resolving the issue (literally the #1 reason for this purchase was to stream to my Sonos system from Roon).

Very excited to use Roon, but can’t, and right now have a $3500 paperweight.

If we can’t get actual quick support like something of this expense warrants, we need to find out about your return and refund policy.

[AceRimmer (Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!)]

Pinging @support for you here.
Lets keep everything in the one thread for now pleaase.

[Menzies]

Hi @Brett_Henrichsen

Welcome to the Roon community.

I’m just a fellow Roon and Sonos user.

Until last night, I was very lucky and have been very lucky with Sonos devices and Roon. Whilst many had issues during the 15.2 update from Sonos until 15.3 update from Sonos, I did not.

I also have a UniFi network, and before last night, everything was working perfectly with all Sonos devices on Wi-Fi.

I was running Roon server on Windows 10 on a device without a CD drive. As I wanted a CD drive to allow me to rip CDs too hard drive, I removed by NVMe M.2 SSD And transplanted into a Dell computer. The Dell computer booted correctly, but Roon could not stream to my Sonos devices anymore. Just as per yourself no tracks played and gave the same error as you.

Roon was able to stream, airplay devices and other points, such as Chromecast devices. Neither my network or Sonos devices changed.

Upon installing Roon rock, essentially the same software on a nucleus, my Sonos devices now worked with Roon.

I’m wondering if it is worth you navigating to your nucleus IP address on a web browser and carry out the re-installation of Roon. As this is pretty much the same as what I did.

@connor what are your thoughts on this please?

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Thanks @AceRimmer … trying to keep it all in one thread, but no one is responding there even after asking for an update. Normally I’m fine with a bit of delay on support requests, but this $3500 box is completely unusable for me right now with this issue, and with this kind of expenditure I need a support level that’s on par with that expense - I’m not just using a homegrown install of Core, I shelled out $3500 for their own native hardware in hopes of avoiding compatibility issues like this, but here we are unable to stream… normally companies with that kind of hardware and expense have pretty rapid support… so I’m escalating here to see if we can get resolved or how to return.

[AceRimmer (Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!)]

I understand and hopefully we can get this moving along for you here swiftly

[Brett_Henrichsen]

I’m open to trying this if @support thinks this is an idea, @Connor ? Anyone at Roon? I understand there are a lot of aspects at play here, with protocols, network, the router, hardware, Sonos, etc… I dreaded going down this rabbit hole with any kind of cool system like this, and the installing Rock and Core and all of the components on NAS or computers convinced me I’d be dealing with problems like this. So, convinced the family into letting me spring for the $3500 fully loaded Nucleus Plus direct from Roon because I figured (a) there would be a lot less hassle getting it all working, as it’s advertised as coming ready to go and (b) figured there would be high level direct Roon support for their own hardware. I personally think Roon Labs needs a dedicated Nucleus or priority Nucleus support channel for people who did shell out the $ for their hardware and aren’t dealing with NAS and PC’s and Windows and Mac and get top level fast support to Nucleus purchasers as part of the justification of spending that $… .just my .02.

Sincerely appreciate everyone trying to help… just want this to work and get on with enjoying it!

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Also @Menzies , in the one response I did get from @Connor there was mention of network errors and enabling DNS multicast and UPNP - I’ve done all that, and am now still waiting for a response after that… but since you mention you have a Unify network, and I’m curious if anything on Unify is causing the problem - did you have anything else you had to do in your Unify settings? Are you using a Dream Machine/Pro or similar? There are a trillion settings in there and I’m hoping none have been missed that is blocking the streaming from the Roon. Airplay works. Everything else on my network works fine, Sonos streams to Sonos. But Roon just keeps losing audio connection to every Sonos speaker and never starts. I don’t have other devices I want to stream to - the sole reason Nucleus was purchased was to manage my music and stream it to Sonos… but, it won’t do it.

[Menzies]

I understand your point of view ref $3500 and the expectations with it.

I have a USG, multiple 5 port switches and currently 2 UAP AC Pros. A small network compared to some I guess.

I did have a UDR, but it’s fan noise, slight, drive me nuts but it needed to be in the room as it also had an AP in it.

I have operated Roon, Sonos and general IoTs across multiple VLANs to see how far I can go before something breaks. It’s the engineer in my I think.

It is recommended to keep things basic with Roon to prevent issues so I have 1 network, 1 Wi-Fi SSID.

anyways. My USG is almost factory set. Everything you have set is how I have mine set.

Until last night swapping over the NVMe M.2 SSD I was happy as Larry and could operate my whole network wirelessly. I’ve shared my experiences several times (bet some get bored of me).

When I was streaming to my Sonos speakers via Sonos Streaming when others weren’t, I kept feeling it was network related. Pro-consumer but in a basic configuration.

I’m running wirelessly now as I need to see if my network can handle my soon to be completed house extension and Wi-Fi network expansion without Ethernet runs. Currently I stream 4K content to 3 TVs, stream to 3 iPads, 4 phones, my full array of Sonos and my headfi setup. I can stream Roon to multiple zones with different content. My core is wired to the same switch as my APs.

I digress.

So, my thoughts now turn to the relationship between Sonos and Roon. Not a Roon fault but related.

Each time I tweaked my network sometimes my Sonos on Wi-Fi would drop off the Sonos app. A reboot refreshes the IP address (even if not changed) and back working. That’s Sonos for you. e.g if I change my SSID and then back to what it was, Sonos do not like it and act like it’s a new wireless network.

I can’t be sure, but I’m wondering (Connor or others from Roon may correct me here) if Roon relies on Sonos sticking to an IP address to utilise the Sonos Streaming protocol. I’m not clued up enough on that side of things.

So, my thoughts with my 3 hour drama last night was as I state above. Roon needed to reset this link after I interrupted “the link” to Sonos. More a Sonos thing, just like the 15.2 update was.

I’m going to uninstall Roon server from my M.2 SSD and re-install it again. I need Windows sadly on the Dell I use. This is to see if installing Rock was refreshing this link. Reinstalling on Windows may work.

TBH, I haven’t got a clue at this point what the issue was/is.

Many have different ideas on my theories. In light of what Sonos is, running on Wi-Fi isn’t recommended and to use SonosNet instead with one unit wired up.

If you pop to

http://one of your Sonos IPs:1400/advconfig.htm and click on the matrix link, it’ll show your Sonos devices and how they’re connected to each other. Post a screenshot to see what yours are doing. Might help.

Again. I’ll try the reinstall approach on Windows.

With Rock (essentially a Nucleus) I am all working. I may not want to go back to Windows.

[Menzies]

Well, I didn’t uninstall Roon server from my Windows drive. I installed over the top and it’s all working now.

Worth a shot trying a reinstall from your Nucleus IP address in a web browser.

Well, first try stopping Roon and then starting it again.

If not try

[connor]

Hi @Brett_Henrichsen,

Thank you for your patience. We’ve further reviewed diagnostics from your device and have a few notes and suggestions to pass along:

There are no reported issues in software logs with the Nucleus+ itself, but it’s regularly losing access the local network and failing to reach Roon’s servers. The network doesn’t appear stable at this time.

@Brett_Henrichsen

I’m curious if anything on Unify is causing the problem

Traffic might not be passing between access points on this network properly. Recent logs still show errors associated with both Airplay and UPnP. Roon is reporting that devices are not announcing themselves as expected on this network. The fact that both protocols are affected suggests the issue here is network-related. Here are a few possibilities:

• Multiple subnets or VLANs in your network. Glancing through your diagnostics, some devices do in fact appear to have IP addresses assigned in multiple subnets.
  a) In UDM settings, look for options to route traffic (LAN1 to LAN2 or similar).
  b) Try changing the ethernet port to which you’ve hardwired the Nucleus+

• Verify that you’re using the same band of WiFi on all devices. I believe the UDM Pro supports both 5.-GHz and 2.4GHz bands.

• Try connecting all of the Sonos devices via WiFi, or (if possible), via ethernet. Be sure to avoid daisy-chaining any hardwired Sonos speakers together, as this is known to interfere with SonosNET.

• There are network failures in logs when attempting to play back to non-Sonos endpoints, like computer speakers. This also suggests the network might have broader underpinning issues, possibly also related to multiple subnets. However, we can try to more precisely diagnose with a little more context around the audio failures themselves:
  a) Are you having any issues if you attempt to play Roon without Sonos, like on a laptop?
  b) Do you have problems playing local files, TIDAL/Qobuz content, or both?

We’ll keep a look out for your response. By all technical indications, however, this is a network-related issue and will require settings or hardware changes related to UDM to resolve, rather than in the Nucleus+ setup. We’ll do what we can to help you, but I recommend additionally exploring non-Roon content related to known setup snags with UDM and Sonos.

Some users, for example, have resolved issues with their UDM networks by running ‘multicast-relay docker’ on the main router: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubiquiti/comments/gxvzk2/udmp_sonos_multicast_relay_docker/

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Hi @connor
Thanks for getting back to me. Going through your list of 'possible cases" -

• there are. no subnets or VLAN’s on our network
• there are no issues playing Roon to computer, on a laptop, no issues playing local files
• no issues with any other devices or playback on our network, Unify has been rock solid, we love it. Sonos has no problems streaming from Sonos app, from any music source

We followed a user’s suggestion of ‘restarting’ Roon, and now it seems to be streaming to Sonos! The new issue is that now it plays 4-5 seconds of a song, pauses, then jumps to the next song in queue. The next song will continue playing without interruption, but the Roon app shows paused on the previous song that stopped and doesn’t update that it’s playing the next song. This happens over and over.

What could be causing this new issue?

[Menzies]

Hi Brett

You’re getting there.

Roon has just released a new update for Nucleus users. Pop to settings and swipe to the end to about. Tap on about and then it should show the update. Installing the update is painless, just note the Nucleus goes offline briefly whilst it does it.

Hope this helps further for you.

Thanks

Lewis

RoonOS (Nucleus / ROCK) build 258 production is live!

Hello Everyone, This update to RoonOS adds operating system support for IPv6 networks. On its own this change will have no impact, but it will provide more connectivity options for some ARC users with the next Roon release. Thank you for your continued support, The Team at Roon Labs Build Numbers Application Version RoonOS 1.0 (build 258) Production Changes Added IPv6 networking support to RoonOS Installation RoonOS will update automatically and you will be prompted in Roon …

[connor]

Hi @Brett_Henrichsen,

Thank you for the update. A few additional questions:

1. Does this issue occur with Tidal/Qobuz content as well as local library content? Logs seem to indicate streaming service content (Tidal/Qobuz) is affected in particular.

2. Do you have any DSP enabled in Roon for the affected Sonos Zones?

Particularly for grouped Sonos Zones, I recommend setting the Resync Delay to a value above 0ms in Device Setup (Settings → Audio → gear icon ) if you haven’t already. This will allow for more wiggle room if there are network or bandwidth issues while switching between file types and content sources in the queue.

I also recommend refreshing RAATServer. You can generate a new RAATServer instance on your device by following these instructions, but please be aware that this will reset your Roon Settings → Audio Tab to factory settings and I would advise making a backup of any custom DSP settings you have:

• Create a Backup of your current Roon Database
• Stop RoonServer from running in Nucleus’s WebUI
• Navigate to your Roon’s Database Location
• Find the folder that says “RAATServer”
• Rename the “RAATServer” folder to “RAATServer_old”
• Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new RAATServer

Your network endpoints will reappear once you reopen Roon. Hopefully, this keeps playback more stable over the weekend.

[Brett_Henrichsen]

Hi Connor,

I’m a bit confused what ‘logs’ you’re saying show this happening with Tidal in particular. I’ve added by Tidal account to Roon, but haven’t actually played anything from it even once. This is all happening when i try to play albums form my library on internal storage.

I’m also not using groups.

I’m literally playing any album, from Nucleus internal storage, to ONE (any one) Sonos speaker.

That’s my answers to your questions, dying to understand how my logs say i’m having trouble with Tidal when i haven’t played from Tidal yet…

I’ll next try your suggestions above.

Thanks for trying to help!