Can't play reliably with Oppo HA-2 on Nucleus

[James_O_Brien]

I’ve had my new Nucleus for about a week or so and really enjoy it but…

1. Every couple of days , at random, the sound may vanish, even though the song is apparently playing on the roon remote interface.

2. Twice the playlist/radio queue has just skipped continuously at a very rapid rate without playing

3. Numerous times I can’t connect my remotes to the nucleus without a nucleus reboot.

I have what I consider a very simple setup. Nucleus to oppo HA-2 headphone amp/dac via usb , and dac to intergrated amp. via RCA leads. ( Nucleus ethernet connected to Netgear Nighthawk router). Library via usb on 4tb Seagate HDD ext drive. ( The only difference is the little oppo dac is continuously powered on now as it draws power from the nucleus. Previously it powered down when the MBP was sleeping).

It really is starting to ruin what should be a reliable, enjoyable experience.

I was hoping the issues may settle down but haven’t yet.I had none of the above issues when my MacBook Pro housed the roon core previously.
Thanks
James

[eric (Eric Stewart)]

Hi @James_O_Brien —— Thank you for the report and sharing these observations you have made with us. The insight is very appreciated and sorry to hear of the troubles.

Continuing forward, I have broken up my response into 3 parts so I can address each of the observations you have made separately. Kindly see below.

1. Every couple of days , at random, the sound may vanish, even though the song is apparently playing on the roon remote interface.

• Can you think of any patterns in behaviors before the above occurs?

• What action brings Roon out of this state? In other words are you rebooting Nucleus? Are you rebooting the endpoint (i.e oppo HA-2)? Rebooting both?

• Besides the Oppo HA-2 do you have any other audio zones that you make use of and if you do, do they exhibit the same behavior?

2. Twice the playlist/radio queue has just skipped continuously at a very rapid rate without playing

• Just to make sure we are on the same page. When Roon is skipping through tracks, no error message is displayed, correct? It will just keep skipping until the play queue has depleted, correct?

• Does this occur with both local and TIDAL content?

• As asked above, if you have any other active audio zones, do they exhibit the same behavior?

3. Numerous times I can’t connect my remotes to the nucleus without a nucleus reboot.

• Please verify the make and model of the remotes experiencing this behavior.

• Have you tried reinstalling the application on these devices since this issue started happening?

• I understand that you are rebooting the Nucleus when this happens but have you also tried rebooting any relevant networking hardware as well (i.e router, switches, etc)?

• If you have any devices acting as remotes that can make use of a hardwired ethernet connection, have you verified what the experience is like when the device is not using WiFi?

• Please describe your network configuration/topology being sure to provide insight into any networking hardware you are currently implementing. I want to have a clear understanding as to how your devices are communicating and all the tools involved with making those connection possible.

-Eric

[James_O_Brien]

Thanks Eric,
Answers as best as I can at present below. I am not a computer wiz and I have only had the nucleus for a week or two. I have music playing I guess hours a day and these problems have only occurred infrequently but when they do it is very frustrating. I cannot remember any of these issues with the MacBook Pro running the roon core.

Eric Stewart
3:55 AM (4 hours ago)

to me
eric eric Eric Stewart Roon Labs: Support
April 29
Hi @James_O_Brien —— Thank you for the report and sharing these observations you have made with us. The insight is very appreciated and sorry to hear of the troubles.

Continuing forward, I have broken up my response into 3 parts so I can address each of the observations you have made separately. Kindly see below.

Every couple of days , at random, the sound may vanish, even though the song is apparently playing on the roon remote interface.
Can you think of any patterns in behaviors before the above occurs?

• None as yet. I often have roon randomly playing my library ( 2.4 tb of mine plus 500 or so tidal albums), and I think on one occasion I noticed after a few hours the music had stopped and the tracks were skipping as described).

What action brings Roon out of this state? In other words are you rebooting Nucleus? Are you rebooting the endpoint (i.e oppo HA-2)? Rebooting both

• I think I have switched zones momentarily. Not 100% sure on that. I may have switched the nucleus and or the oppo off and on. sorry I am not more informative here. will note next time.

Besides the Oppo HA-2 do you have any other audio zones that you make use of and if you do, do they exhibit the same behavior?

• Besides iOS devices I have a Naim muso as a zone. Roon airplays to it with no issues so far, although I don’t use it much

Twice the playlist/radio queue has just skipped continuously at a very rapid rate without playing
Just to make sure we are on the same page. When Roon is skipping through tracks, no error message is displayed, correct? It will just keep skipping until the play queue has depleted, correct?

• Correct. No error message is shown. I haven’t let it continue as I guess it wouldn’t stop skipping with a radio list.

Does this occur with both local and TIDAL content?

• Not sure, but probably.

As asked above, if you have any other active audio zones, do they exhibit the same behavior?

• maybe the iOS devices? Not sure re. Naim muso.

Numerous times I can’t connect my remotes to the nucleus without a nucleus reboot.
Please verify the make and model of the remotes experiencing this behavior.

• Ipad Model A1566 (NGKL2B/A)
  *iPhone 6s
  not sure about the MBP but probably.( 2.8 Ghz i7) MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)

Have you tried reinstalling the application on these devices since this issue started happening?

*No

I understand that you are rebooting the Nucleus when this happens but have you also tried rebooting any relevant networking hardware as well (i.e router, switches, etc)?

• No

If you have any devices acting as remotes that can make use of a hardwired ethernet connection, have you verified what the experience is like when the device is not using WiFi?

• I could hardwire the MBP next time but haven’t as yet

Please describe your network configuration/topology being sure to provide insight into any networking hardware you are currently implementing. I want to have a clear understanding as to how your devices are communicating and all the tools involved with making those connection possible.

• Cable internet to house via Telstra modem ( our service provider - must use their modem).
  Netgear Nighthawk AC1900 Smart WiFi router Model R7000
  Just ran download speed…41.4 Mbps. Upload…978 kbps.
  Cat 6 ethernet hardwired to Nucleus.

thanks

James

[James_O_Brien]

Hi Eric,
update,
At around 10.21 am ,after playing normally for 2 hours, the skipping behaviour started.
I had been shuffling my library tracks for the previous 2 hours. then was listening to a couple of selected tracks from my library ( non tidal), then returned to shuffling my library and left the room soon after. I guess the skipping behaviour started within a few minutes of then. The remotes were not responding normally ( both iPad and MBP in as much as they took a few attempts on each the stop the behaviour, ie, I hit the stop icon and it reverted to play again a few times. By the third attempt it finally stopped.
I then changed zones to the naim muso and it was working normally with same shuffling of library tracks - no skipping.I then switched zones back to the main oppo dac zone and the skipping behaviour recommenced immediately.
So it seems to be isolated to my main listening system with the little oppo dac.
I’ll now will re boot the dac, then network before rebooting nucleus and see which if any rectifies the situation.

[James_O_Brien]

I switched off the little oppo HA-2 dac and switched it back on after about 10 seconds. The main system is playing normally again now. No need to reboot anything else. In the back of my mind I have been wondering if the little dac, which has been performing wonderfully for 2 or 3 years with my previous MBP system, may be the culprit in this new nucleus configuration??

[James_O_Brien]

Have had roon shuffling all afternoon. Has been fine playing all resolution files. I went out for a few hours and on my return music had stopped and remotes not working. This time turning dac off and on had no effect. I had to reboot the nucleus to get the remotes operational again.
Also the history screen looked like this prior to nucleus reboot.The unavailable labels were on everything I had played throughout the day while here. History screen looked normal after reboot.

Something is not right here.. This morning one problem, this afternoon another.

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

So the non tidal tracks are on the Seagate external usb drive? I wonder if this is failing or maybe going to sleep or perhaps the NUC doesn’t have enough usb power to drive it properly? Is it externally powered?

Looks to me like the local tracks are unavailable? Is this because you disconnected the drive at this stage?

[eric (Eric Stewart)]

Hi @James_O_Brien ----- Thank you for touching base with me and taking the time to answer my questions. both are very appreciated!

When you noticed that the song’s in your “history” are being listed as “unavailable” is the mentioned storage device housing your collection (“4tb Seagate HDD ext drive”) still listed as active/available in the “storage” tab? The reason for my asking is because the skipping behavior you are experiencing can come about for a few reasons, one of which is when a storage location is not available at the time of playback.

Additionally, in regard to the performance of your remotes, I would still recommend trying the following:

• Reinstalling the application on those devices.

• Testing with a hardwired connection between the MBP and your router to verify how the laptop performs when not using a wireless connection to your network. Remember, when you perform this test you will want to disable the Wifi on the computer.

• Rebooting any relevant networking hardware.

• Is the firmware up to date on the Nighthawk router?

-Eric

[James_O_Brien]

It’s a new drive @wizardofoz. I bought it recently for the nucleus. It is indepentently powered. Yes. All my library is on this drive. No , I didn’t disconnect it. As for going to sleep, I’m not aware they do that. As I mentioned, it had been playing for many hours prior to me leaving the house for 2 hours.

[James_O_Brien]

Thanks Eric. I will check next time whether the drive is still listed. I’ll reinstall the remote apps on all my devices. Is it likely that there is an issue with all these apps? They have been working normally for 2 years on these devices.I’ll perform the other suggestions. The nighthawk firmware is up to date.

[James_O_Brien]

Hi Eric
I rebooted the network. Reinstalled remotes. At about 8.35 am , after about 30minutes of shuffling my library, I noticed the sound was absent although the track was still playing according to the remote. I stopped and started the play , and immediately the track skipping behaviour recommenced, ie, rapid cycling through the queue. I stopped the play via the remote, which exhibited the same 2 or 3 attempts before the cycling would stop. I then turned the oppo dac off and on, recommenced playing, and all is normal again. The drive was visible in the storage setting in nucleus prior to reboot of dac.

[James_O_Brien]

I am currently about 3 hours into troublefree shuffling my library via airplay from the nucleus to my naim muso. This different zone bypasses the oppo ha-2 dac in my main system but of course, still utilizes my seagate ext. drive.
I’ll keep it airplaying for a few more hours yet to see if it remains stable.
If so , it seems the problem is related to to nucleus - oppo HA-2 dac- intergrated amp. chain, ( my main system)??

[James_O_Brien]

Eric,
What should I do next time the problems arise?@support. Take note of the time so you can check my logs? to see what is going on?
Thanks

[eric (Eric Stewart)]

Hi @James_O_Brien ---- Thank you for the continued feedback and more importantly, thank you for your patience here. Apologies for the wait.

Before we look into gathering diagnostics and timestamps, I would like to propose the following troubleshooting exercise to see if we can isolate some variables here a bit further. Based on your recent feedback it appears that this behavior is only occurring with the Oppo HA-2 DAC, as the NAIM zone is having no issues during playback. In light of this I would like like to recommend the following tests:

1. Please mount the HA-2 DAC to your MBP that is acting as a Roon remote and confirm if you experience the same behavior.

   • If you happen to experience the same behavior with the HA-2 DAC mounted to the MBP, please confirm what the experience is like with a new USB cable in place between the DAC and the computer.

2. If I am not mistaken the Naim muso has a USB input. Can you please mount this device to the Nucleus via USB and verify if exhibits the same behavior as the HA-2.

-Eric

[James_O_Brien]

I’m not sure what you mean here Eric. The HA-2 dac has been connected to the MBP for about a year prior to replacing it with the nucleus with no issues. Do you mean you would like me to drop in the MBP, reinstate it as the roon core, and remove the nucleus in the chain ,( which was my previous setup for years)?
As mentioned, I cannot determine any pattern to this behaviour as far as when it will happen. May be 2 hours after starting playing, may be much ,much longer. I guess I was hoping you could just see if the log from yesterday around 8.35 as mentioned previously could shine some light. Otherwise I guess I will get back to you in a few days after setting up all these other scenarios.

Thanks

[eric (Eric Stewart)]

Hi @James_O_Brien ----- Thank you for the follow up, the insight in regard to what your previous configuration was is appreciated!

Being as the MBP is setup as a Roon remote you have the ability to attach a USB DAC to it and thus it can be used as an audio zone. So the point was to confirm how the HA-2 performs when not mounted to the Nucleus. Furthermore, asking to test with another device mounted to the Nucleus via USB (i.e Naim muso) is to how another DAC performs.

Having these data points will not only help isolate the issue, but it will give us a better idea as to where the issue is occurring. For example:

• If the HA-2 performs as expected when not attached to the Nucleus we know that it the unit is not experiencing any performance issues. As such this suggests that there is potentially an error occurring with how the Nucleus is communicating with the HA-2.

• If the Naim muso has no issues when connected to the Nucleus, we then know that this behavior is isolated to the HA-2. If it displays the same behavior then we know that there is a more general issue occurring here.

I can certainly enable diagnostics on your account so we can have a closer look into this behavior for you. What this action will do is the next time the application is active on your core device a diagnostics report containing a set of your Roon logs will automatically be generated/uploaded directly to our servers. I will confirm when the report has been received.

-Eric

[James_O_Brien]

Thanks Eric,
I had my main system on all day yesterday (10 hours plus),without incident. It is very difficult to predict when these issues will occur. I guess , if you can download my logs you could take a look at the two events with times mentioned previously .
This is why this is quite frustrating for me as I really have no idea how long to run these other tests. Who knows, maybe the problem has vanished now, but I doubt it. I unfortunately don’t have another dac to try.
Thanks
James

[James_O_Brien]

Hi Eric,
I have arrived home after being out for a couple of hours, having left the nucleus playing while away. This is the first time in a day or so of near continuous playing that there has been an issue.At 2.42pm play had stopped. History screen and storage screen shown. When I restarted, tracks were skipping quickly. This is a slightly different presentation to before. I hope you can check the logs for this. My remotes are not connecting with the nucleus at present.
I have rebooted nucleus and now everything is working again.

`

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

I wonder it its sleeping https://www.seagate.com/sg/en/support/downloads/item/drive-settings-master-dl/

I noted this way back up the thread.

[James_O_Brien]

Thanks Wizard. I did note you suggestion previously, however I formatted the drive prior to loading my library to exfat . Plus the nucleus is linux based and it seems your link relates to windows. The time frame of commencement of issues seems very variable also , 30 minites to way over 12 hours.I’m not sure where to look for those settings in any event. If they are pertinent I would definately like your help to check them.