Criticism on direction of Roon

You almost NEED a powerful server now to run Roon swiftly and take advantage of the features. I’m running a very simple setup with no dsp, and everything hard wired, and search is SLOW.

Long before getting Roon I built a little Windows file server to host my music and stream it to my Bluesound Node. This fileserver has a cheap 4 watt CPU (Pentium N3700), one 8GB RAM stick and the most budget-oriented SSD available at the time, the BX100. I’ve thought many times about upgrading, because if I need to log into it the user experience is pretty slow.

But I got Roon set up a few weeks ago with my 30,000+ tracks and it is running brilliantly. I use upsampling and DSP in the chain with a minimum 6.9x processing rate. And search takes under a second.

So I suspect either you have an enormous library or something is very wrong with that Mac Mini. But perhaps there are also some performance gains they can squeeze out of the software too and I’m always in favour of that.

a bit more modularity in the software

This I am 100% with you on. Note that the api is already open and available for use by third parties, so perhaps someone has made a client with a more light-weight UI. I know there’s already command line control.

Personally I want to add my own DSPs, which is something that a more modular design would help with. It would also allow users to decide what is bloat and leave it out of your installation.

From a software development perspective, making your code ‘modular’ at a low level can give code savings and help you avoid technical debts that cause grief later so I always recommend it for projects of any significant size or longevity. But making modular components that are optional/customisable to users means a combinatorial explosion of setups you need to test.

Roon is already highly modular in that there’s a server/client setup plus RAAT and probably a few other bits chatting to each other. And all the supported platforms will have bits that are different - I don’t think they’ll have implemented an “iOS search” as that doesn’t make sense, but for detecting new files to add to your library, they may have already needed to customise that for each OS, or for each filesystem.

So there’s already a lot to test, and I really find it commendable that it works so well (in my short experience). I really hope they find the engineering capacity to make things a bit more user-configurable and extendable, but I can understand the effort it might entail.

Some way to allow us to send music to the Roon Server from other services

That’s not really a software issue so much as a “getting other companies to change their products” issue. Bluesound made more effort on that and less effort on software… and that difference is probably why I’m now using Roon. But I would like to be able to send other live audio through Roon - something as basic as a virtual audio output device in the OS, that directs the audio to your Roon Server, and a corresponding option to select it for playback in clients. Then you could leave whatever unsupported service you like running and direct the sound wherever it’s needed, with any DSP you need along the way. I hope that’s on the cards. I’d love to be in a virtual seminar at my desk and simply add in the kitchen speakers so I can go make a cup of coffee and not miss a thing they say.

Hmmm, I can see how feature creep can build fast in software like this. And the users simultaneously complain about bloat and suggest features they personally want. I suppose it’s true, you can’t please everyone.

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I think there’s an extension that can send stuff to roon as a radio feed. But I may be hallucinating :smiley:

Entrypoints is what you are thinking of…

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And I remembered!

So true and I like the self reflection
:sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile:

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Apple music would need apple to want to do it - personally dont care. But this is likely to be the problem with most integrate music streaming service X type requests.

A Roon input (ie support ADC) I would very much like especially as I also use Roon to host my room correction DSP. Definitely a +1.

Remote access - ironically since the pandemic my life has changed and I exclusively work at home now, but still would be nice when out and about so that gets a +1 too.

Rich media - actually I generally find it rich enough and very useful and often interesting, but I guess it could perhaps include upcoming local (ish) events related to the artists you are listening too. I guess there is also the issue that information feed may cost ongoing money which could have sub cost implications and I believe Roon prefer to avoid lots of messy subscription options which quite honestly I find refreshing these days when half the functionality of most sub apps these days seems to be buttons demanding more money instead of performing the expected function. To my mind the major cause of subscription fatique (when user gets sick of all the little subs and tots them up one day to great shock and cancels the lot).

As for things they added you seem less keen on:

DSP - well I use it for room correction and ironically adding input support would actually let me make greater use of this feature and make it even more useful.

Radio has definitely needed its updates and improvements as has search. And I think they both could still stand some improvement. I think radio was actually better for me personally at some point in the past as these days I can often find myself skipping alot, but milage varies with the seed track/artist.

As for nucleus, well mostly you can achieve the same with an intel NUC running ROCK (which I guess is what a lot of us do). The nucleus gets home automation integration options that are exclusive to it. Certainly I do not see Roon becoming or attempting to be a hardware company. Having a branded nucleus however makes a lot of sense in the context of customers just needing an appliance like physical device they can buy and install with little or no unusual setup.

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:+1: totally agree

I agree. Why can’t we download some of the music and play it from our phones via Bluetooth in our car.

Maybe you can export to Soundiz and use Soundiz to export to an app on your phone. That’s how I keep Apple Music in sync with Tidal and Qobuz. I haven’t looked at all the potential apps that Soundiz can send to, but there are a lot.

Hi @Marc_Abramson,
It’s technical possible of course, afterall the Tidal and Qobuz apps allow this, however, the studios’ licencing agreements only allow downloading of streamed content for offline play within the streaming companies’ inhouse applications. So for now at least this rules out 3rd party applications like Roon.

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Hey @Marc_Abramson - @Carl nailed it - it’s a licensing issue. The streaming services’ agreements with labels, regarding artist compensation, prevent it.

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Okay, thanks.

I’ll look into it.

FWIW, I have often used the Qobuz app to download music that I want to listen to when I’m away from home - particularly if I’m driving or going out for a long walk where internet access is just not an option. It works perfectly from the Qobuz app on my iPhone. Sure, it would be nice if I could do it within the Roon app, but honestly, downloading from Roon ahead of time would be no less headache than doing so from the Qobuz app.

Bottom line (for me), of all the things I’d like to see from Roon, being able to download for offline listening is not high on the list.

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Amazon may not think they need Roon but their apps are so bad that it would be a match made in heaven if it happens.
Adding Amazon would give Roon that one music service that is never going away.

Adding a music service that you know isn’t going away is the key to Roon’s growth IMO.

My needs differ strongly from yours, @Mike_O_Neill (no right/wrong dialectic being attempted here :smile:)

I spend a lot of time curating playlists in Roon Home and organizing my library. I use the Roon Radio AI to find new music heavily. Then curate more playlists, tag groups, etc. based on what is suggested; rinse and repeat.

I also use, heavily, the rich meta-data information packed into Roon to find new music - E.g., James Jamerson is the defacto Mowtown bass player, one of my all-time favorite musicians; I can click from Marvin’s “What’s Going On” and see what else he’s played on, produced or put out before his death; invaluable! That then goes into the aforementioned “rinse and repeat” library build-out.

I then have to duplicate all this in TIDAL, omitting my local files. Or, just search for stuff on TIDAL.

I hope Roon will build out a Roon Mobile experience, so I can have my home library architecture usability available when I’m mobile… For me, it’s a deal breaker; when my annual sub. terms in April, '23 I’d have to seriously think about not churning sans, a mobile experience.

In simplest terms; having a seamless mobile experience that duplicates my home library build, while out of the house is my number one product suggestion to Roon.

Please Roon Labs, please… :heart:

Wouldn’t that be nice?

I suspect there are more than simple technical problems here. For instance, all that information, the rich metadata, is provided to Roon under license from various sources. I imagine the contracts which govern that licensing stipulate fairly rigidly what Roon is able to do with them. They may well be licensed under other terms to other companies for use in mobile applications.

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I’d opine, @Bill_Janssen it’s a necessity and in our mobile culture beyond nice. :rofl:

As I’m not versed in the fine points of music licensing, can’t speak to the interesting items you call out.

I’ve found that when you look into the reasons companies don’t pluck what seems to be obviously low-hanging fruit, it’s often because of IP licensing issues. Someone else owns the patent, or someone else has the contract for this and that.

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Exactly or they just are not allowed under t&cs. Roon does tend to be behind other apps though for some features even after they get allowed for 3rd parties. I feel t&cs are one of the reasons adding family streaming accounts isn’t a thing. For mobile not so much Plex manages it and it’s uses same sources albeit not all of them.