Definitive statement(s) on music service integrations with Roon?

Roon Software Discussion
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@moderators @danny

I’ve done a cursory search and looked at the FAQ, but I could not find anything obvious.

Off the back of almost daily repeated requests on here from new or infrequent visitors for the integration of <insert streaming service which isn’t Qobuz or Tidal> with Roon, I am sure that I am not alone in understanding why Spotify, Apple and others etc are not on the roadmap (and never likely will be). I’m sure Danny is tired of explaining why an API is not adequate for integration etc, but he still ends up explaining every month or so (that I see). It seems there may be a growing need for this info to be much more front-and-centre.

There are also some other services, HRA, for example, that are not in the “no, not now, not ever, go away Roon” camp - and it is understandable that Roon may not be able to confirm or deny any ongoing negotiation and/or dev work, however, a dry statement to the effect that “conversations with X service for integration have occurred and that conversations are ongoing/the ball is in their court/watch this space. We will not provide further commentary until the situation changes” (delete as appropriate).

If such a thread that lists the major known streaming services (and their respective status with Roon integration/roadmap) is created, locked and pinned then I’m sure this would help many, not least of which the exasperated officers and moderators of Roon itself.

I may have missed such an open or ongoing thread, in which case it is suggested that it be redrafted to reflect any updates and additions, reposted as a vanilla thread, locked and pinned. If it is buried in the FAQ, then perhaps it could to be more prominent or have a link explicitly to it from the forum.

If this eventuates then the rest of the community can aid the mods very quickly with any similar future requests by providing the link to the pinned topic/FAQ section.

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I don’t think there is any way in the world that Roon could or would be able to make such a statement.

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It’s regularly explained why Spotify isn’t integrated. When the comments respond explaining that “there is an API” or whatever other reason, Danny patiently explains time-and-again.

Why can this not be expanded?

It’s just an increasing amount of noise to sift through otherwise.

EDIT: in fact, let’s wait and see if there is a response from officialdom. It’s all well and good me suggesting it, and you flambéing it, but they are the arbiters after all. :slightly_smiling_face:

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We have a giant Roon super database in the sky that aggregates all the metadata providers (all the ones Roon uses) and both the Tidal and Qobuz catalogs. This is some world class, only exists in Roon, level data mining. It’s the Roon “secret sauce”.

On your local Core you have a database that aggregates your local tracks with those you’ve selected from the Tidal and/or Qobuz catalog. The metadata for all this comes from the Roon super database in the sky.

Core talks to Roon’s super database. That’s it. If it’s not in the super database it doesn’t exist according to Roon. It can make a match to that super database from your local files or from the imported catalog of Tidal or Qobuz.

That last part is key. The imported catalog. No one is allowed to scrape the entire catalog of a streaming provider without a commercial agreement in place. You want Roon to work like Roon? Then Roon needs that catalog in the super database in the sky.

If you want Roon to work like Sonos or any of the other apps where you have to bounce in and out of each service then you use the normal APIs. But that “loose” integration isn’t what Roon is about. They need an agreement to pull the entire catalog and very few providers are interested in doing that. This is why an API won’t work.

I’m trying to simplify this as much as possible. Roon needs to import the entire catalog to function as it does today. Public/User/Client whatever you want to call them level APIs don’t allow that.

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Despite the fact I appreciate you going into that detail, the response is somewhat moot. I wasn’t asking the question that warranted your answer. It took you time didn’t it? It takes someone time every time that the question is posited. That is my point.

Why should you or anyone else need to do this every single time that a new person asks why a service cannot be integrated?

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I see. Well, since I’m here I’ll answer a different way.

Roon doesn’t discuss feature roadmaps. For that reason, I’ll assume that Roon has on their roadmap to integrate every streaming provider as soon as they can come to a commercial agreement to import the catalog. But they won’t discuss the state of those commercial agreements (even if the state is “no one will call us back”).

If this is the case we shouldn’t ask Roon… we should ask the streaming service why they won’t call Roon and get this going. :wink:

But, anyway, I see the point of your post now (only took reading it 3 times, I must be working too much lately). I think there are only 4 or 5 providers of interest… maybe a list and how to reach them so the community can nudge them from the provider side?

  • Spotify - [Partnership] Roon partnership please - The Spotify Community (only 247 votes so will probably die again)
  • Apple - no idea how Apple ranks integration requests, support?
  • IDAGIO - e-mail them
  • HRA - This may just need resources at Roon?
  • Amazon HD - Contact Amazon Support and file feature request
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What you’ve written there is getting closer to the solution (not the solution on lack of integration, the solution of people who can’t or won’t use the search function to see if the question has been asked before). I appreciate the potential legalities* more than many on the question of being open (or more usually not being open) about commercial agreements etc (semi-retired, ex-COO in the technology engineering space), which is why I offered some blanket dry statement as a straw-man.

The fact that, of all people, Danny has explained some of the minutiae on the Spotify example, could well be reason alone to warrant contemplating a broader response apropos other streaming services whilst maintaining appropriate confidentiality. It’s a question of not over-committing in any of the wording, but having broad position that includes nothing more than what one of the Roon officers could write within any thread responding to such requests.

This could well be the best idea yet. Especially if contextualised with a little bit of narrative explaining that these requests come into Roon all the time and don’t always rest with Roon as a decision.

*perhaps I should not have used “Definitive” in the thread title. Mea culpa.