Thanks Peter, all good here now!
its been several months… never turned it off yet… lol
For those Who bought the Terminator just before the Plus came out don’t sweat it. I had both side-by-side. Both with the Gaia (Plus with clocks connected) Can’t go wrong with either. They are both mind blowingly good. I had a very, and I mean very, slight preference for the original. Likely system and room dependent. I decided to stay with the original Terminator. I wanted to like the plus better and keep it but in the end I just preferred the original. There was a little extra body to the plus but it almost seemed… I don’t know how to describe it. I don’t wanna say colored, because it was not. But maybe a little more body than my preference. I saw the Guttenburg review (After I had already made up my mind—Alvin was actually the one who pointed me to the review after I told him my preference). I pretty much agree with Steve’s assessment. I can easily see how some, dependent on their system and taste, would prefer the plus. I may be in the minority.
On another note, I did read where some people were upsampling to DSD through roon prior to sending to the Termi. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe DSD is processed through the R2R pathway. I’m pretty sure R2R is a PCM only path and that’s where the magic in Denafrips DAC lies. Why defeat the reason to own an R2R?
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@VinshineAudio, I see that the Terminator is updated by the Terminator II, and that the Plus is “Low Stock”. Does this imply that shortly the Terminator Plus will be superseded by the Terminator Plus II?
According to Alvin at Vinshine, DSD is converted to analog using resistors, but differently than PCM (whatever that means). I only listen to PCM anyways, so moot point. If I was into DSD, I would have not bought an R2R ladder DAC, like you said, Robert.
New Pontus II in da house!! 
(anyone fancy my 6 month old Ares II, purchased here in the UK from Denafrips authorised reseller Willow Tree Audio in Bury St.Edmunds)
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Hey Tim. Not in the market but any thoughts or comparisons between the two models? Also, how do you like your lumin? Which model?
Hi Robert - well I’m still running-in the Pontus, but right away it just gives you more, just the Ares II with simply more of it, more micro details, a bigger heavier feel, solid tight bass that really kicks ass! If I hadn’t decided the rest of my system really needed the next level up I would have been very happy with the Ares II and my next DAC would have been a long way off and in the £5-7k range - the Ares II is that good.
Some say the Ares II is warmer, but I’m yet to play with the various inputs on the Pontus as it’s not at critical listening level yet. Maybe at this moment in time the Pontus is possibly a little more analytical, which might make it sound a little too much like a delta sima chipset DAC for some… but like I say, she’s not run in and I have yet to try anything other than USB from the Lumin (which is highly detailed and analytical). I’m looking forward to trying AES input as well as the more organic coax spdif (well it was on the Ares II anyway), with the Pontus you can also utilise a DDC and convert the USB from the Lumin to I2S… plenty of upgrade room there!
I’m loving the Lumin U1 Mini, I can’t possibly tell you whether it is worth the money, helluva price for a digital network bridge… but she looks amazing in the rack (compared to a Pi based streamer) and never misses a beat. I think I could upgrade everything numerous times around the Lumin and it would still be surprising me with more of what it can offer for years to come! I’m probably from the old school of thought that always said get your source sorted first, then build a system around it!
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Thanks for the detailed reply! I’m with you, source first. Speakers next. (Not always that easy if you’re running tube amp. Have to be more careful with speaker selection. Good sensitivity and no major impedance dips)
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I decided a few weeks ago to buy the new Denafrips Terminator II R2R DAC. I owned a Denafrips Venus for two years prior to this. I received it on the 4th of July weekend in 2019. I bought it because it was the “best” DAC I could afford at the time. I had tried and owned several of the top name brands from PS Audio and Mytek but they left me wanting something else. After I owned the Venus for a year I bought and installed the new DSP board. It made a big difference in the performance of the DAC. More horsepower as I was now able to play higher bit rate DSD with ease. I loved that DAC and although I wanted a Denafrips Terminator when I bought the Venus I told myself it was 80% to 90% of the performance of the Terminator. Boy was I wrong.
I recently found a little extra disposable income and decided to sell the Venus and buy a Terminator II. The Terminator II arrived two weeks ago on Wednesday. Let me first say this. It’s not 10% or 20% better than the Venus. It’s much better than that. Everything about the Terminator II is better than the Venus. I let it run in for 100 hours before I did any serious listening (sorry to those who think break in is not a real thing). The bass is more authoritative and deeper than the Venus. It actually freaks me out how great the bass is because I am listening to smallish bookshelf speakers. I kind of was expecting this since the power supply on the Terminator II is so much beefier than the Venus. The mid-range is also more exciting and the overall presentation is just better. Bigger soundstage. The instruments just stand up and salute. It’s a much better DAC than the Venus (sorry to the guy that bought my Venus). The presentation is just so relaxed I find myself turning up the volume knob a few notches and enjoying it more and more.
I have tried all file types from 16/44 Red Book CDs to DSD512 files. This beast I affectionately named Arnold (I know I am not the first one to call their Terminator Arnold) can handle anything I throw at it. My streamer is the Auralic Aries G1. I do 90% of my listening through Roon via USB from the G1 to Arnold. My speakers are the Dynaudio Special 40 bookshelf speakers. My integrated amp is the Ayre AX-5 Twenty. I cannot believe how big a step up this thing is over the Venus. And I thought that I was in heaven when I listened to the Venus. Now I am over the moon in terms of enjoyment.
Everyone is different and the room and the type of music you play will affect how you perceive this thing. I am blessed with a great room. My listening tastes are 50s and 60s Jazz. It’s what I listen to about 95% of the time. I plan to buy the Gaia DDC as soon as my budget permits. The two clock outputs on the TII will make that a must. This was a no brainer upgrade for me. If you are sitting there thinking about doing the same I can’t tell you that you will not be disappointed because I don’t know you or your situation. What I can say is that this might be the single best purchase I have ever made in audio. I for one am delighted.
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I’m curious about this John as I am about to buy the Venus II after a long bit of research. You are comparing the original Venus to the Terminator II and I wonder just how big a difference there is between the Venus II and the T-2. I guess we can’t know that, and as you say, room and equipment might play a big part in this. But the spec for my new system is close enough to yours that I am wondering…
- Dynaudio Heritage Specials
- Pass Labs INT-250
- Venus II w/Gaia DDC
That pretty much blows my budget in a big way. I guess I could go with INT-60 and upgrade to T-2, but many people would consider the Venus II a pretty awesome DAC to start with. I guess you have to A/B in your listening room to really know in the end. Thanks for sharing your experience.
If it was me, I’d hold off on the GAIA and buy the TII. You are right I have not heard the Venus II but it can’t be light years different from the original Venus I owned. My problem was that as much as I loved the Venus I was always looking at owning the Terminator. When Denafrips introduced the TII I decided to take the plunge. Good luck making a decision. I appreciate your comments.
Thought I needed the Gaia as I’m planning to use the new Bluesound Node for streaming input via USB to the DAC and some said that the Gaia represented a big improvement in cleaning up the USB signal for the DAC. But I’ll take your advice and dig into the T-2. It’s just $$$. LOL.
@John_Aiello Sorry. Just confirming: you got the new Terminator or the Terminator Plus? I don’t see a T-2 listed on their site.
Look on the Vinshine website. It’s there. I bought my Terminator II from Alvin Chee at Vinshine Audio. I am in no way related. Just sharing a good guy with the community.
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Thanks will do. If I go the T-2 route do you recommend just getting the Iris DDC instead of the Gaia since I am all about cleaning up the signal from the Node and only care about the USB signal path, not all the other inputs the Gaia supports?
I can’t tell you what to do. I can tell you what I am doing. I bought the Terminator II and plan to buy a Gaia when I am able to afford it. This way I can get used to the sound of just the DAC before I add the Gaia. After all, that way I can tell how much an improvement the Gaia made?
I think the T-2 and T+ are different animals (the Terminator original shipped with an upgraded USB interface card) but now there is a new and improved model called the T-II and there is a biggish difference between the prices of the 2 models the Plus being more expensive than the T-II by some S$2000+
Edited to reflect Alvin’s update below
Improvements of the Terminator II over the older Terminator:
- Total segregation of Digital Signal Processing and R-2R Network Arrays (Analog) boards
- Oven-Controlled Crystal Oscillators OCXO replace the TCXO clocks.
- High-speed Digital Isolation. The silicon-dioxide (SiO2 ) isolation barrier with isolated power supply effective isolate the ground and block the noise from one end to the other
- Redesigned Power Supply Unit (encapsulated underneath the DAC board)
- Supercapacitors for Digital & Analogue circuitry for high energy storage to ensure supply of constant cleaned DC power to the circuitry
- Clock Out eco-system to sync with DENAFRIPS DDC.
Details can be found here: link
Enjoy the music! ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭ ♮ ♯
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I’m planning to purchase an Ares II in the next month.
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