Well that is a remaining myth from the very early days of DRC. Over the many years DSP and leading software has advanced - and the whole process of measurement and customizing corrections to users needs has gotten really easy. There are more complex tools like REW which are powerful too but it takes a lot of time and learning curve to get where you want to be.
That’s what for example Focus Fidelity Designer is making different in providing a highly accessible and convenient approach to get great results instantly - and also be able to further adapt to your personal preferences. (@Focus_Fidelity can definitely tell more about that and where things are heading for their approach)
It’s funny when some „high end users“ talk about perfect music reproduction they follow and you immediately hear massive room modes doing really harm to music at their listening room.
So to sum it up: DRC when done wisely will have apart from the speaker most likely the biggest impact on the perceived sound quality.
Software like Roon implements a 64-bit floating point signal path for all processing, which is huge resolution meaning any added noise or distortion is going to be extremely small.
I personally didn’t hear a difference between volume control-on or volume control-off in Roon, at least that difference is so small that I prefer to have the luxury to have volume remote control. But high-end people are still pre-occupied with the idea that tone controls are bad.They prefer to hear the huge noise and distortion of room-modes. To me that is a proof that there is a lot of placebo mechanism there.
Just a thought that I have for a long time. Room modes are caused by the captured air-volume resonating and the motor is the woofer. To a certain degree that air volume is a load to the woofer and part of the electro-mechanical-acoustical chain (the blackbox that is our audio-system). So exactly equalizing the room modes suppresses them, like equalizing a speaker driver resonance with an L-C-R netwotk in the cross-over. The low room modes are for some degree part of the minimum phase area of the system.
I read about someone exactly equalizing a room mode with an analog parametric equalizer and he heard that the specific frequency just got rid of a part of the “tail”, it was still there and audible, but in his perception died out quicly almost like other frequencies and this was pretty equally distributed in the room. What I mean to say is that with proper equalizing frequencies that are low enough to be part of the speaker load (so not the reflections), like a dsp or rmc or even a very carefully set parametric equalizer can do, that distortipn can be taken out of the system for a large part!
I started getting into digital room correction about 2 years ago and worked my way through Room EQ Wizard. Took me some time but by now I know what I am doing. Not the easiest tool but free and delivers if setup correctly. My system sounds better then ever and my neighbours stopped to complain as I managed to get rid of the room modes
I took the plunge into the FocusFidelity software and am very happy with it!
The process is straightforward an the software and user guides assist you step-by-step.
The critical process is getting the measurements right, which also is not too complicated at all.
From there, it’s actually a lot of fun to design and try out different target curves to find the one that suits you best.
Results are outstanding and it’s interesting to see (or better hear) huch much impact even small changes (like +/- 1 dB bass) have.
And for the sceptical ones among us, the measuring software also allows to load the convolution filter created by the filter designer to verify the predicted effects through measurements. In my case it was almost spot on.
David @Focus_Fidelity is also quite supportive via e-mail as already pointed out in this thread.
So I can highly recommended giving it a try for yourself.
@Torben_Rick: I’m also living in Hamburg, so in case you like to share experiences, drop me a PM!
Great you followed the recommendation and are enjoying things. It’s really amazing to experience - and especially when switching between convolution / DSP on and off you hardly can imagine getting back ever
Hopefully we will see a MacOS version by @Focus_Fidelity soon so even more users can take advantage from this great tool.
I‘ve been using REW for EQ for quite a while, but this way you „only“ get tonality right, not timing problems or making those even worse depending on the amount of EQ applied.
The extra clarity and more focused stereo image gained by correcting the time domain as well sounds subtle at first and is most noticeable during more complex passages in music, that sounded smeared and congested before.
Overall, the presentation seems more effortless and relaxed, reducing listening fatigue quite a bit. Things just sound „right“ for lack of a better description.
Regarding Mac Users (being one myself): The FocusFidelity software works fine inside a virtual machine, if you have an intel based Mac. I suppose a bootcamp Windows should work even better since it can make full use of rhe system recources for time consuming calculations.
As i have been told by David @Focus_Fidelity, the upcoming Mac Version will be most likely AppleSilicon only, we‘ll see.
That it also what friends notice immediately when they listen on my setup. Even those who have acoustically treated rooms at their places praise what you described.
It’s actually very cheap to establish such a sophisticated listening experience: a micro like the UMIK-1 and the FocusFidelity software - and after a very short time even absolute beginners can enjoy what is a major improvement to their overall setup.
@Roland_von_Unruh@Markus_Hubner Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. The thinking is Apple Silicon only, but if demand for older hardware is strong, then that may have to be supported as well.
Apple Silicone to start is definitely an important / valuable step - and depending how much effort it is to port also a version for older hardware definitely appreciated especially as the MacBook usage lifetime is commonly quite long.
@Focus_Fidelity Any forecast when there might be a MacOS compatible version ready for testing?
I’m sorry, but I think I must question the premise of this whole thread. DRC is an essential feature nowadays?" Really?
I agree that in some circumstances DRC can improve sound. But in many, many cases owners will fail to do the basic things that they need to do to maximize sound quality BEFORE applying DRC. What might those “basic things” be?
Having the listening position centered between the speakers. I’ve seen photos (in audio magazines no less) of speakers staged in their “house beautiful” positions with the listening couch or chair hard to one side or the other. Balance controls (or DRC) can’t really correct this well.
Having the speakers located asymmetrically in the room. I’ve also seen photos with listening rooms with one speaker near an open doorway to another room while the other speaker is hard in a corner. Balance controls (or DRC) can’t really correct this well either.
Rooms without suitable acoustic treatment. I’ve seen rooms that are ALL hard materials and glass that lack any acoustic damping at all. These are echo chambers, and they’ll sound like it with or without DRC. I’ve seen other rooms that are carpeted, fitted with acoustic ceiling tile, have bookshelves and have absorbent hangings on all walls. These may easier for DRC to kill the non-existent echoes in, but they’ll still make a system sound muffled and dead. Good audio rooms need a mix of reflective and absorbent surfaces, and without that mix, DRC won’t work very well.
Too many think that DRC is the cure for all audio evils. It is not. Before worrying about DRC at all, first do normal “due diligence” to optimize your listening room.
@Glenn_Young Well of course it’s a matter where to set the basic standard. And I think especially in the ROON community we are aware that doing the worst-case scenarios of speaker placement etc found worldwide isn’t what this community is all about.
It’s like saying in a Ferrari forum there are pictures of owners using 14 inch tires and before going to other improvement stuff this has to be assured.
I am sure everyone here will do their best to get the best out of their HiFi setup, so will not proactively do massive failures in speaker setup or hardly any furnitures to create massive reverberation time etc.
But there are many, many cases where DRC is (as implied by the thread topic) an essential feature - for example standing waves which is a basic law affecting every room. To really cope with that solely by room treatments then you need massive elements definitely not suitable for a living etc where most of the time the HiFi setup is located. That for example is a perfect case for DRC which can easily be fixed that way.
And furthermore many others like not an absolute perfect symmetry in the HiFi speaker setup - which is very very rare to have not just the same distance to wall in both sides but also exactly the same absorbing / reflecting elements etc.
So I absolutely get your point like DRC is not the holy grail for every worst case setup / room. But as mentioned we are here on a certain basic level where from that on it is a highly effective way to improve sound reproduction.
Sorry for the late reply, I did try Dirac via my Mac Mini onto my Dac. While setup is easy , getting to tweak it to suit your unique taste is a bit of learning curve . To be frank I prefer Roon as its so easy to tweak the Parametric EQ settings, right from your listening position. It may or may not be the best in terms of SQ , but its ease of use is what appeals to me.
I tried using all-frequency room correction with REW in two locations with different systems and very different room dimensions and acoustic characteristics. In both locations room correction worked in the sense that it eliminated an annoying bass boom at different frequencies that was very noticeable in both locations on some recordings. The problem was that it also flattened the response to something theoretically “better” in all frequencies but I just didn’t like the result for the vast majority of recordings where I didn’t notice a bass boom. What I realised was that I had chosen the speakers precicely because the in room response was not theoretically flat and I liked a subtle mid-range boost with the sort of music I usually listen to. On one site I have now turned off REW room correction and instead just use roon parametric equaliztion to target the bass boom but leave all other frequencies alone. The jury is out with the second location.
I have generally found the process of measuring the all-frequency in-room response useful as it is easier to target remedies. Ultimately though I am leaning towards abandoning all frequency room correction and instead being more selective with parametric equalization instead. Every case is different but in my case room correction seemed to correct one problem but at the same time add in other worse ones.
This sounds so reasonable, Glenn, but my experience with an odd-shaped, stone & glass room with few options for a mitigating “mix of reflective and absorbent surfaces” has convinced me that DRC can do wonders. You should try one of the current solutions before declaring that they can’t work in my situation.
I’ve used DRC for years. It does help. But it does best in rooms that are already good for acoustics.
One of my first exposures to DRC was in a casino. They had a shopping section off the hotel / casino that was all glass, stone, and even hard ceilings. They had music playing in the hallway and as you walked forward, the music (even though coming from different sources) sounded clear and coherent. I was on the planning committee for an engineering group that was having a conference at the casino, and had access to the management that most didn’t. I asked how the music was managed in the shopping area, and they told me about DSP. It impressed me, and I’ve been a fan ever since.
But the DSP available in consumer products such as AVRs is, in my opinion, not the equivalent of that available in professional applications. I’ve seen consumers with one speaker in a reflective corner and the other next to open doorways to other rooms. Yes, their DSP makes what would otherwise be an acoustic mess listenable. In such situations, DSP should be considered mandatory. But how much better would the same DSP do if the speaker positioning was already symmetrical?
My point is not that DSP is “bad,” but rather that the less work the DSP has to do, the better the results will be.
