on the dac master mode is on
on the dac master mode is on
Can you switch off or change the digital filter for a test?
not sure if I filter can be switched off. but let me try filter 6 for 24/192 and get back to you
so seems OK
tried filter 6. still getting dropouts on 24/192. This is on the dac. on upsampler its filter 1 and can not seem to change it. changed back to filter 5 on the dac. new to dcs and to roon!
Sorry then i really don’t know what’s the fish in the setup.
thanks anyway! have sent dcs an email as well! Have a great day!
You too. Something comes to mind if you set both DAC and Upsamplers Clock to Auto Mode and see what happens.
This is not an issue with the settings on the Vivaldi at all. Clocking, upsampling, filter, and buffering settings will not lead to the problem you’re having. If you’re getting dropouts then the issue is likely farther up the chain (in the delivery of data to the Upsampler).
Just for clarification, when you say drop-out do you mean that consistently throughout the entire track it’s “skipping” or do you mean that you’re missing the first second or two of the track. If it’s only the latter then set the resync delay (as outlined below) and reboot the upsampler. Otherwise read on to the other steps.
I’ve run into this issue with a customer using a DS216+ as his core (very small library) and would like to offer up a few things to try. In his case it was an issue of memory contention on the DS216 and upgrading his RAM to 8GB and periodically restarting Roon on the Synology solved the problem. I realize that you have 8GB of ram in your DS916 (as do I in mine) so bear with me on the following:
First off, in Roon you need to set the resync delay for the Vivaldi and, sadly, it needs to be long. I’ve found that 5 - 8 seconds is required for the worst-case scenario. There’s a bug in Roon 1.2 that applies the delay when it shouldn’t (which is annoying), but I’m told this is fixed in 1.3.
Now, try rebooting the upsampler if you haven’t already. Hold down the front panel button until the display reads “SWITCHING OFF” and then release. Wait 10 seconds and restart. This will reboot the network card and that may be part of the problem. It can occasionally get hung up (especially when the resync delay isn’t properly set).
Next, go into the hardware settings in the Synology DSM interface and turn off memory compression. With 8GB of RAM you don’t need it and it can cause some latency when under load. This will reboot the Synology.
Finally check and see if audio analysis is currently running in Roon (Settings -> Setup). If it is currently running then you’ll see a message saying “Currently analyzing XXX of YYY tracks” (or something similar) under Background Audio Analysis Speed. This process is a huge resource load and it’s one that can significantly overpower the rather modest CPU in the 916+. If it’s currently running then use the menu to turn it off. For the purposes of testing also turn of the On-demand analysis as well.
Last up, there’s a known issue with the USB3 support on the Synology boxes and although they know about it they have yet to do anything to fix it. There is a chance that the data transfer rate to your SSD is being choked by this issue. Best way to check is to try and copy a big file (like a 24/192 track) from the internal drive to the SSD and back. Do this within DSM rather than over the network. If you’re getting super-low transfer speeds then this could be your issue. It seems to only impact certain USB3 drives. I have a Seagate that is beyond slow, but the external Samsung SSD that I’m using is consistently quick.
thanks! its a relief to know that the problem is in Synology. Dropout: during playback. when the 24/192 song is playing. it plays well and then suddenly there is a sort of stuttering and then playback resumes. Have not noticed a periodic pattern., its random. So I guess it is a memory issue and will know if the tips you sent me help resolve the problem. Also, when a 24/192 track starts, occasionally there is a delay and sometimes the beginning of the track is cut off. So I just go back to the beginning of the song and its fine. This happens especially when I switch from lets say 16/44 to 24/192. guess it takes a while to load. Increased the resync to 10,000 ms in Roon and have put the buffer on in the DAC. Will reboot the Upsampler and get back to you.
Did switch off the memory compression in DSM. Thanks for this tip! Actually the sound also improves! Wider soundstage! Seems like the horse is out of the barn sort of situation!
Audio Analysis: This is on and it is SLOOOOOW! left it overnight and it has tracked something like 10,000 tracks out of 100,000+ tracks. Do we need this aspect of Roon to be on if we are not doing cross-fading, levelling, etc. Have not studied Roon in depth but it seems to me for an audiophile setup this feature is not really necessary. So can leave it off! Your thoughts?
SSD: Using the Apacer 128GB SSB. Pity the synology has USB issues. WIll try copy the file as suggested and see how long it takes.
Taking it one step at a time! Thanks for taking the time out! Will report back with the results!
Have a great weekend! Merry Christmas!
The resync delay setting should take care of track starts getting cut off and it’s best to use it with Roon as there is a known issue in the current firmware for the dCS network card that causes the card to lock up when a mixed sample rate queue is played. Setting the delay helps to address the issue, but doesn’t correct the problem. This is being fixed by dCS and new firmware should be out shortly.
This is totally your call. Analysis is responsible for producing the dynamic range graph that shows up in the progress bar and will also make sure that you don’t have any corrupt tracks in your library. You can turn off background analysis and use “On Demand” (which analyzes the track immediately before playback) but this may result in a similar problem.
Another option would be to set background analysis to “Fast” when you aren’t listening and then turn it off completely before a listening session. This will help speed up the process. Analysis is a one-time operation so once Roon has made it through your entire library the process is over.
Having said that it’s been mentioned elsewhere on the forum that Roon is moving to a different method for calculating dynamic range (R128) and that means that 1.3 will likely need to re-scan your entire library again. Just FYI.
You have a larger library than I would typically recommend for running Roon on the Synology itself. It works, but you’re pushing the limits of what that Pentium CPU can handle. When 1.3 comes out you might want to invest in an Intel NUC and use the new Roon Core Kit functionality to handle core duties. This will give you a turn-key Roon server that can mount all of your music files from your NAS and it will have the power needed to handle a 100,000+ track library.
I had the problem with the new Ayre DAC. Make sure the Roon recognizes the Vivaldi as the DAC. I had to set mine manually although had no trouble with Roon automatically detecting a Dragonfly on my desktop system. Look at the microphone in the lower right of the Roon page. If it doesn’t show the Vivaldi, that could be your problem.
@ Andrew: Thanks for the tips! A couple of questions: (1) Haven’t figured out how to reset the network card on the upsampler. Tried pressing the power button but nothing happened, then tried the menu button but nothing happened. Which button do i keep pressed to reset the network card? (2) Is the Roon Kit out? (3) does it have to be installed on an Intel NUC or can I use a Mac Mini?
If Roon Kit is not out yet and since I have a large library, I am thinking of using a spare Mac Mini that I have from a couple of years ago for Roon. It is a core 2 duo processor and I built a Linear Power Supply for this Mac to keep the noise down? Will that work since we are reducing the load on the Synology? Your Thoughts?
@ Tom: The ROON software does recognize the Vivaldi Dac. In fact I can put the Dac / Upsampler off through the ROON software as well.
Power-cycling the upsampler resets the card, but it needs to be a true power-cycle, not just tapping the front panel power button to put it to sleep. If you’re getting no response at all from the front panel buttons then the upsampler is locked up and should be power-cycled using the rear panel switch.
It will be released with Roon 1.3 which is due early next year.
The Core Kit is based around the Intel NUC, but it might work with other hardware if the drivers are there. Won’t really know for certain until it’s done and released.
I have a 2009 Mac Mini (Core 2 Duo) that I use for testing (running linux). It’s about the same performance-wise as the Synology so you wouldn’t be gaining much of anything there. Plus, I’m fairly certain it’s limited to 4GB RAM. Running linux it’s been fine, but a current version of OSX on that box is going to be painful.
I have an i5 NUC (6th generation) at the store running Roon on linux. With 8GB ram and an internal NVMe SSD (M2.SATA) and it’s super-speedy. I can’t remember the total cost, but I’m fairly certain it was around $500. Pretty much a drop in the bucket when you consider the rest of the hardware involved. That’s the target platform for Roon Core Kit and I can’t recommend it highly enough. It’s been bullet-proof.
Don’t worry about the power supply. For the core it simply doesn’t matter unless the core is hooked up to a DAC via USB.
Roon Kit: Thanks for the tip! Look forward to installing it when its out.
Intel NUC: Do you recommend i3, i5 or i7?
Mac Mini; Actually I had 8 GB ram on it and a 250GB SSD. Was running Audirvana off a Nas. Mac was directly connected to the NAS (no router) and the Mac was connected to the Router via wifi. Used screen sharing to control it off a Mac Book Pro
Linear PS: Have built a linear PS for the Synology and the Router using Plitron transformers and Blackgate capacitors. In my experience a linear PS reduces the noise level considerably. Will have to wait and see how it goes with the Intel NUC. Since the Router has a linear PS, hopefully the noise levels from the 19V switching PS of the NUC will not have an effect or a diminshed effect. But worst case is to build another linear PS for the NUC.
Looking forward to tinkering with Roon 1.3 and the NUC
thanks for your help!
@ Andrew. Thought I would update you on an experiment! Installed the Roon Core on the Mac Mini Core 2 Duo! Thought I would give it a shot to divide the load between the NAS and the Mac Mini! The Mac Mini had about 72 GB of storage capacity left. Guess what?
It kept crashing after scanning 64,000 tracks! Read on the Roon forum THE ROON KIT will run on the i3 or i5. Seems to me this is the only way out or change the NAS! Roon Kit seems like a more stable solution!
Thanks for the heads up!
While I like the all-in-oneness of the DS916 I have at home my long-term plan is to use it as originally intended (storage device) and move my Roon Core functions over to an i5 NUC (either running the Roon Core Kit or a generic linux install). That just seems to make more sense in the long run.
Hi Andrew! A spot of good news! dropout issue solved. you will never believe what solved it! The DSM 6.1 update in Synology! I am using 10 TB Seagate Iron Wolf HDDs. DSM 6.1 addresses some issues related to the Ironwolf HDDs. Hi Res files playing without dropouts now!
Makes total sense, but I wouldn’t have thought to look at hard drive compatibility issues. Learn something new every day
Thanks for following up!