DSD Sample Rate Conversion screen pull down does not show DSD 256 or 512 rates

Support
1

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

SGC SonicTransporter i5 running SonicOrbiter O/S 2.8 and Roon 1.8

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Netgear Nighthawk X45 router, Netgear CM700 cable modem

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Sonore OpticalRendu feeding USB to LKS DA-004 DAC with upgraded Amanero USB board.

Description Of Issue

My DA-004 DAC can accept all DSD rates. The drop down where you select the DSD upsampling rate only shows DSD 64 and 128 as choices. Why? I want to also try upsampline to DSD 256 and 512.

What does Roon check in my network and/or hardware to decide NOT to display the two higher DSD rates in the drop down?

Here are the DAC Diagnostics run from SonicOrbiter in case those are helpful.
I have selected DSD 128 and it does work, but there are several types of errors occurring. A “sandpaper” like noise for a second or so occasionally, some drop outs and when music is paused some odd sounds now and then when there should be dead silence. I suspect these may be due to some as yet unknown issue with my network. The cable modem and router are on top floor of my home and the ST, fiber media converter and optical Rendu are in basement. I have a 50’ length of cat 7 ethernet cable run from top floor to basement, plugged into a Trendnet 5 port Gigabit Greennet switch.

I have set the SDM Gain Adjustment to - 6 db.

Thanks, Bob

DAC Diagnostics:

This is a list of audio output devices attached to this player.
USB output

DAC description: Combo384 Amanero 16d0:071a

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Amanero Technologies Combo384 Amanero at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
Status: Stop
Interface 2
Altset 1
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)
Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Bits: 32

Status: Unknown (status not available when device is not playing)

Simple mixer control ‘PCM’,0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 32767
Mono:
Front Left: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Front Right: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control ‘PCM’,1
Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Limits: Playback 0 - 32767
Mono: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

2

Sometimes DACs only support higher dsd rates with Windows.
From the tech specs
The machine uses the Italian Amanero USB module, supports PCM and DSD decoding in USB access mode, PCM supports 44.1K ~ 384K various rate, DSD support DSD64, DSD128, DSD256, DSD512 (Windows).
Windows system support 32/64 bit XP / Vista / win7 / win8 / win10, need to install a proprietary driver (support KS / Wasapi / WDM / ASIO).
Mac OS 10.6+ and Linux UAC2 are not driven.

3

Hi @Robert_Fitzgerald and welcome to the forum.

Roon usually uses what the endpoint (Sonore OpticalRendu) reports as its capabilities.

DoP (DSD 128) matches the reported 384kHz sample rate. Check the settings on the OpticalRendu as well as Roon to see if native DSD is supported.

4

Have heard of strange problems with cat7 previously due to its shielding/ grounding.
I had a 75ft run of cat7 and had some odd occurrences of errant noises at random times, replaced with good quality cat6, no more odd stuff.
ymmv

5

There are hardly any material in existence higher than DSD128. Sit back and enjoy the music,.

And reason is as already stated connected to driver.

6

Sonic Orbiter is a Linux based OS. That means it will be limited to DSD128 support unless patches specific to your DAC have been applied. The issues associated with use at DSD128 suggest that possibly some aspect of hardware is limiting capability depending on the age of the hardware. The only thing you could do in Roon is ensure you have it load sharing between processors. If you haven’t already done so approach SGC to perform any diagnostics they can, and to see if the patching can be done to enable the higher DSD rates but be aware you may be hardware limited in achieving them because upsampling DSD is quite a heavy load.

1 Like
7

Which Amanero firmware version are you running? Unless you have manually upgraded it by yourself, it would be an old version and it just won’t work with Linux native DSD.

8

Thank you @BlackJack. I want to thank you and all the others who took their time to post helpful replies to my first Roon Community support post. I was blown away by the willingness of so many to help and the high level of experience and knowledge they bring to the forum.

You pointed out that the highest sample rate shown on my DAC diagnostic rates line was 384kHz and that corresponds to DSD128.

Prior to my post I had looked up the rates for DSD64 - 512 and found the following:

  • DSD 64 : DSD 2.8 MHz = 2 822 400 Hz = 44100 Hz x 64 times;
  • DSD 128 : DSD 5.6 MHz = 5 644 800 Hz = 44100 Hz x 128 times;
  • DSD 256 : DSD 11.2 MHz = 11 289 600 Hz = 44100 Hz x 256 times;
  • DSD 512 : DSD 22.6 MHz = 22 579 200 Hz = 44100 Hz x 512 times;

That shows DSD128 sample rate as 5,644.8 kHz. I must not understand something
important here, as you are equating 384kHz with DSD128. Can you fill in what I’m missing? Thanks!

Based on several of the reply posts, it seems to me that my LKS DAC and/or it’s USB module can handle lower rate DSD coming from a Linux based player like the OpticalRendu, but not DSD 512 unless the computer outputting the stream is Windows 10. Mu-Sound product literature seems to only say that about DSD512, so I’m not certain why Roon is seeing 256 as also not available. Perhaps when Roon queries the active USB module, the Amanero is not sending back the 256
rate in the return string. I am waiting to hear from a support contact at Mu-Sound
to see what he says and wether there is a firmware update available that would
enable 256 and/or 512.

Thanks again,
Bob

9

When not being able to use native DSD, you will have to use DoP. DSD128 DoP is packed in 24-bit 352.8kHz PCM.

If you need to ask someone about Amaneo upgrade, you have not done it and that’s why it does not work for you. Your question would be which firmware version is approved and which CPLD to use, do they offer any help like specific instructions, etc. It is basically public. That being said, I’m not responsible if something undesirable happens during or after you did the Amanero firmware upgrade.

10

Thanks for your reply Kevin. I did buy a 50’ Cat 6 cable today and ran it from my
Router to the basement then tried it instead of the Cat 7. At least the sound I get when I pause Roon and there is no music being sent is still there. My guess is the sandpaper noise and dropouts will also still be there.

Has anyone experienced a strange rising whistling noise when Roon is paused?
I’ve heard that in many cases the details of your home network equipment and/or wiring can be the cause of problems. Is there any consensus agreement on what we should use or not use as far as routers with 4 Ethernet jacks and regular non smart switches?

One thing that I just thought of is my Router has a cable going to a Netgear PowerLine unit. Maybe there is some noise artifact coming back to the router’s switches from that PowerLine. Tomorrow I’ll shut that down for a few minutes and see if that clears up the various noise and dropouts.

Thanks again for your reply!

Bob

1 Like
11

Thanks for your reply. While my LKS DA-004 is a few years old, the standard USB module was removed when I had some mods done. I purchased Mu-Sound’s upgraded Amanero USB module and followed the support person’s instructions to install it.
I was told it had the right firmware and I would not have to download and load a revised firmware version. I’m waiting to hear back from the support person. He is cooperative but it is still some language barriers that sometimes lead to confusion on each end.
I won’t attempt an Amanero firmware upgrade unless that is recommended and supported by my Mu-sound contact.

Thanks, Bob

12

Make sure to say “Linux DSD512”.

13

One more thing. In your streamer you may need to set “Native DSD”.

14

Hey @Robert_Fitzgerald,

An incredibly belated welcome to the Roon community :wave:

While I cannot apologize enough for missing on your post until today, it is so great to see you engaging with the Roon community as you were looking for a solution. Thank you! :pray:

If some questions are left unanswered or if we can do anything to help now, please, let us know. We’d love the chance to lend a hand :nerd_face:

15

Any update?