If you get it set up right in your room, it has a big effect on the soundstage. Before the plugin my soundstage was wide and deep. It was outside the speakers. With the plugin it is more holographic. I can’t think of a better term. The sides now wrap around to the left and right of my ears. It can push the vocals back a bit in the center or, at least, it seems like it. I refer to it as my music bubble.
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Hi Therry, how did you set it up? I simply entered the listening triangle dimensions. Did you experiment with speaker position and if so how did you go about it. See my experience with uBAACH above, I cannot recognize any 3D/holografic effect, simple a more analogue relaxed sound. Perhaps more to gain for me in speaker set up?
When you put the 8c in close proximity of the front wall, the front wall essentially becomes a part of the speaker itself. The front-wall setting does two things:
- It ensures that the combination of the speaker and the wall has a flat frequency response.
- It time-aligns the wall’s contribution with the speaker’s, so that all frequencies arrive at your ear at the same time.
In contrast, the side-wall setting only deals with the frequency response of the speaker and wall.
When you measure with REW, the software takes into account that the side-wall setting only reduces the amount of low frequencies. By not enabling the side-wall correction, there’s more sound left to be dealt with by REWs filters, which has greater precision. The overall results will be better.
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As explained in the BACCH setup wizard in the Dutch & Dutch companion app Ascend, the best results are obtained by minimizing early reflections. Keep in mind that early reflections can happen close to the speakers (such as the side wall), halfway between the speaker and the listener (think of the floor reflection), but also close to the listener (think of reflections off leather upholstery, or the wall behind your sofa).
Please share a bit more info about your setup.
Hi Martijn,
Speakers are 307 cm apart, distance to listening position from either speaker is 340 cm. Speakers are angled to the ear, so roughly 60 degrees. Speakers are pulled out from backwall (40 cm from midpoint of the back of the speaker. Either speaker is free from sidewalls by more than 1 meter. Tile floor but big rug in front speakers. I do have a large coffee table, see picture of the room. High ceiling that angles down towards listener. I use REW and simply added uBAACH after
I use a NUC for Roon/Qobuz (plus analogue source but uBAACH does not affect that)
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Your setup should work well, except for that coffee table. It will cause strong and very early reflections. Please move it out of the way and do an extended listening session with BACCH enabled.
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Thanks for clarifying Martijn. That makes complete sense.
So best practice would simply be to measure with REW with the room’s correct front + side wall settings (and listening triangle settings) active on the 8Cs, then to load the resultant filters to them?
The Ascend app then automatically changes the speakers side wall settings to ‘free’ when the filters are loaded, yes?
To avoid confusion would it be worth tweaking the Ascend app so that instead of reporting the post-filter side-wall setting as ‘free’ it labels it as ‘REW filter’, ‘set by filter’ or something similar?
I experimented with different equilateral triangle dimensions for the listening chair and the speakers. I settled on 215cm which is quite close. My speakers are 20cm from the front wall. My room is large, 7.6m x 6.1m x 2.74m. The speakers are along the long wall. I don’t have a current photo and am not at home to get one currently.
Edit: Forgot to add I use zero toe-in.
My 2 cents:
- such extreme toe in is probably unnecessary
- pushing the speakers to the wall might help for bass level and quality (try 10cm instead of 40cm)
- coffee table is indeed an issue. If you make measurements with REW, make sure to remove it before
- jealous, I wish I had 8Cs…
Hi All
Curious to start the bacch trial, and requested access a few days ago. how does it work/ how will I know I can access it? if I open ascend, I can still only request the trial.
Once the trial has been granted, you simply play on on top of the existing REW profile?
Would be great to hear further experiences, it sounds promising. Thanks!
Is anyone using Roondial and can I use it also for the xlr input for my phono pre?
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I’m wondering if the unfolded circle Remote 2 can be made to function with the Dutch & Dutch 8c’s for on/off funcionality and volumer control using home assistant.
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New firmware V2.6 announcement: Firmware Version 2.6 – Dutch & Dutch (dutchdutch.com)
New firmware V2.6 is released.
I have exactly the same issue, but my two 8c speakers are off and not seen by Roon Nucleus. All the input lights are on, and nothing happens when I press the select button, even for 5 seconds. I have tried to switch them off and back on, to no avail. They are visible on my network though, under a similar I address as the Nucleus +. All are wired to the same router switch.
Whenever this has happened to me it is due to a firmware conflict. Does it say Latest Firmware on the web app?
Thank you Aaron. It was indeed. Using http://8c-XXXX:10000, I was able to access directly my speakers, and downgraded the FW to v. 2.4.81. This restored their connectivity in Ascend, allowing me to create a room to link them. Then I upgraded the FW to 2.6 and it worked perfectly. So I am back on line with sweet music, yay. Maybe the update I had performed before had not completed and corrupted the speakers setup.
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Has anyone integrated 8cs into a home theater set up successfully? Was considering something like an anthem AVM70 in a 5.2.2 configuration.