Good point. I agree, Roon sounds at least batter than direct Tidal or Qobuz. It is recently when I guess Audirvana started to have this advantage. And again that could be DAC/equipment dependent.
My equipment is so sensitive. I am using Chord Mscaler powered by a DC battery for complete isolation connected to Chord Dave also powered by a lab power supply.
My electricity is even isolated from the grid with an isolation transformation to reduce the harmonics in the electricity. Here you start to head the difference. You hear the instruments separately playing in a sphere in front of you.
Enjoy the music. I used headphones a lot and still while working. But I noticed, my brain accomodates to either headphones or soeakers. Hard to shift and enjoy.
My best headphone is Focal Utopia and others which I do not use much now.
Get better equipment then. It shouldn’t need “DC battery for complete isolation connected to Chord Dave also powerd by a lab power supply. My electricity is even isolated from the grid with an isolation transformation to reduce the harmonics in the electricity.”
In reality, it doesn’t need that anyway. WTH is “the harmonics in the electricity” even supposed to mean.
My Naim streamer sounds exactly the same streaming Qobuz directly (with the Naim app as remote controller) or locally over UPnP and with Roon (no DSP) when volume levels are matched as far as I can.
Naim Customer we are speaking different level here. Your point about power is valid. Do not forget Naim sells you for a heafty price that external power supply also.
Based on my testing, only Burmester and other German products have great power handeling and perform best when connected using any source. Try your Naim with an isolation transfomer, it will sound better.
Both analog and digital are subject to ground loop issues. Two pieces of equipment with different group levels get the ground dissipation through a signal cable (Digital or Analog).
When a supplier like Naim sells you an upgraded power supply, you may get better sound, not because of more watts/power. This can be due to improving the power isolation between the equipment. i.e., reducing the group loop between the primary audio signal, i.e., less noise. (You notice that you get even clear sound at low volumes, which means it was not a power delivery issue).
To be clear, a ground loop is a voltage differential between grounds of different equipment, which results in current flow, and is heard a the speakers when no music is playing. Whilst a digital transport may be responsible for the ground loop, this only affects the analogue domain (the voltage differential is typically small.)
It is my understanding that Naim equipment provides ground through a source only, and not an amp or power supply; their additional power supply upgrades are not relevant in this regard.
Adding a non-Naim source can cause a differential if this doesn’t provide a ground for the amplifier.
Nonetheless, ground loops, once identified are easily remedied.
An isolation transformer (balanced power supply) or DC blocker will only help alleviate toroidal hum.
Friendly conversation, and it seems you have good general knowledge. Science never ends, and innovations and creativity are in the details.
Each point you mentioned is a subject of audio improvements, and many of them become more significant issues when multiple brands are used. I do not want to write a lot here, but digital is also subject to ground loop like analog. For example, when you connect your streamer through a SPDIF cable to your DAC. The SPDIF ground is the same ground across the system, and any ground-level difference between the streamer, DAC, or worse from the preamp or amp, will dissipate through any lower ground potential like the streamer. Those electrons (current) will go into the SPDIF ground and change the zero-level reference, damaging the PCM signal and creating glitter and noise in the digital PCM signal. Here the preamp quality is significant to block/isolate the digital from the analog as we know it sits in the middle.
Is it easy to spot the ground loop? The answer is no. I am not talking about humming; the problem happened years back due to unbalanced analog equipment. Here less equipment is better, but sometimes it is unavoidable.
This is incorrect. The ground loop is in the analogue domain. The fact that the equipment is a DAC or streamer is irrelevant.
A ground loop won’t damage the PCM stream; if it were damaged the result would not be subtle. Moreover, most decent DACs have galvanic isolation on the digital side, so a ground loop most likely originates from the upstream amplifier.
Hello Martin. It is a pleasure talking to you and reading your thoughts.
One day, a person asked a salesperson in a high-end audio shop. How much should I invest in buying a good sound system if money is not an issue?
The good answer of the salesperson was. Start with a small figure and keep increasing until you do not hear the difference. The moral of this story is if you are happy with your system and enjoy the music; this is the most important part—no worries about anything else.
Use an ohm meter between the ground SPDIF cable and your amp’s chassis if you have one. They are hard-wired. Where is the galvanic isolation? This is for a different purpose to block the back reflections and may degrade the sound if a cheap operational amplifier is used.
Martin, you can use words like, “You have a point but.”, It might be true, however", “please, thank you, nice.” Avoid starting by saying, “No, you are mistaken.” as it can be the opposite.
That doesn’t achieve anything. For one, ground loops are caused by a voltage differential. Second, chassis ground (earth) and signal ground are not the same.
This side discussion, which has little to do with Audirvana or Roon, now merites it’s own topic … so I’ve split it out and moved to #audio-gear-talk.
Whilst I’m here, a gentle remember to discuss the topic not each other. Keep it friendly.
Would you be willing to reveal the device’s make and model which you are referencing here, since it would be the rare design example of a coax SPDIF input not routed through a signal transformer.
Genuinely interested.
A quick question, if you do not mind. You are using Naim SuperCap DR for better power, I guess. Can you please explain why?
I was checking your equipment and kind of assuming why all sound the same in your system. I guess your speakers are not very resolving. My speakers, B&W 802 diamonds, are way more resolving than your speakers, and hence why I can hear the differences when I even shuffle any equipment. In my system now, I can hear more than ten instruments playing together completely separately, and I will tell you the location of each instrument in 3d (The incredible sound stage you get with an FPGA DAC like Dave).
My Chord Electronics Dave + Mscaler after my customizations were superior to Esoteric D1X $60K DAC as we did many AB tests. Depending on the music you listen to, but if you upgrade your speakers, I am sure that you will start the hear the differences I am talking about.
we are speaking different level here. Your point about power is valid. Do not forget Naim sells you for a heafty price that external power supply also.