Thanks Brad! Perhaps that’s why I found the Muon has a greater impact between router & UEF switch. So, what exactly will I need to replicate your configuration?
I’m using an inexpensive 10Gtek gigabit media converter with SFP+ and a modest length of glass fiber into the ER, which also has a gigabit SFP+ port on the “A” side.
Network tinkerers seem to think that the first FMC can be anything that works, while the second (downstream, closer to the DAC) should at least have a quiet ps. Sonore’s opticalModule gets good reviews.
Some routers already have SFP+ ports to serve as that first FMC, which would save you $50.
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Brad…went to Sonore website & ordered a basic FMC bundle, opticalModule & LPS for the dirty side. I’ll let you know my impressions.
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A quick look at their website showed Sonora-branded, orange colored cable, which is multimode. Do they offer singlemode which is yellow?
Nope, because it wouldn’t be compatible with their SFP transceiver. Transceivers are compatible with specific types of fibre. You can’t match a single mode fibre with a multi-mode transceiver.
As an aside, I wouldn’t pay Sonore’s pricing for a fibre patch lead. There’s nothing special about them other than their brand label. Fibre patch leads are commodity products and don’t let anyone try to convince you otherwise. They have to be suitable for the mode of transmission and meet the specifications for insertion and return loss - nothing more, nothing less.
EDIT: From memory, Sonore’s “System Optique” fibre patch leads are 62.5/125 micron, so their system is OM1 MMF. OM2 fibre patch leads are also orange, but are 50/125 micron and aren’t compatible with Sonore’s modules.
Hello Graeme,
If you’ve been following the thread, you know that we’ve been talking about the sonic benefit, if any, of using 10Gbps transceivers in gigabit SFP+ cages over singlemode glass fiber ahead of the DAC.
Like you, I was concerned that Mr. Finney understood compatibility issues among various products, and wanted to reinforce the fact that the faster transceivers do work with slower gigabit SFP+ and yellow-colored singlemode fiber.
You have already weighed-in elsewhere, many times, to assure us that there can be no audible difference in any of these (compatible & working) approaches to optical networking.
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Thank you Graeme! That’s helpful. Sonore opticalModule is not shipping until end of May due to supply chain issues with chips.
Thank you Brad! Very helpful background.
Brad, it’s not quite as simple as you suggested - different types of transceiver operate at different wavelengths and the fibre has to be compatible with the transceiver.
I’m not getting into perceived audible differences again. I’m just offering my advice in the hope of ensuring that you mix and match compatible hardware.
I was involved in fibre optics before the internet was a thing.
Have a read of this:
https://cleerlinefiber.com/2019/03/19/singlemode-vs-multimode-fiber-optic-cables
This document gives a little more info on wavelengths:
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Yes. Yes. Yes.
My point is that there are transceivers using those wavelengths over singlemode fiber that happily operate at gigabit with SFP+ FMCs. The modules themselves don’t determine the speeds, but are designed to support 10Gbps when installed in compatible equipment.
Some people believe that the more advanced engineering for tighter tolerances (including lower “jitter” numbers), faster throughput, etc. results in greater clarity that they can hear.
Of course we all know that this is nonsense, right?
Just seeking to ensure that everyone understands you can’t mix single mode and multi-mode fibre gear. If you plug a single mode fibre into a multi-mode transceiver, it probably won’t work. I say probably, because it might work over very short distances.
SFP+ is just the form factor type of the module. 10Gbit modules can normally negotiate down to 1Gbit as you’ve discovered.
I would encourage anyone looking to tinker with fibre to do their homework and fully understand the various transmission formats.
Also, SFP+ transceiver modules aren’t universally compatible with every network device’s SFP+ ports. I have Intel, Dell and Ubiquiti gear, all with SFP+ ports. The SFP+ transceiver modules installed in each aren’t compatible with the other hardware. It can be a bit of a minefield.
As for “jitter”, it’s irrelevant over TCP/IP (which is the protocol employed by Roon’s RAAT).
People confuse jitter over ethernet with jitter in a DAC and they’re very different.
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Thanks folks! I’m learning.Your advice is always welcome. I decided to go with systemOptique’s “curated for compatibility” recommendations…basic FMC bundle for dirty side & opticalModule deluxe with LPS option for clean side. Fiber run is short. Won’t ship until end of May due to supply chain issues with chips. I’ll be happy to share my subjective listening impressions for anyone who may be interested.
In fairness, (albeit Systemoptique is pure marketing speak) they’ve put together components which are compatible with each other, although charging $50 for an OM1 LC-LC fibre patch lead and $70 for an SFP module is taking the p!ss.
Whether this improves SQ or not I won’t argue.
Wondering how much all this costs you. For about $200 of off the shelf parts, you could build a comparable solution.
Great, then it isn’t too late to cancel your order.
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Three times that including the power supply. I’m a big fan of 30-60 day money back no questions. If I don’t own it or have demoed it, you won’t find me talking about it.
I don’t understand why someone would make that deal, but it’s your money (of course).
I looked on the thread where people show off their systems, but I couldn’t find yours.
Nah! Not me.I prefer listening.
What do you mean by „jitter over TCP/IP“?
Jitter is a timing error, which in a DAC can cause artifacts in the analogue output. In ethernet’s TCP/IP protocol, it makes no difference provided the clock is working within the (very wide 25ppm) specification. Data is checksummed, verified and error-corrected, so jitter cannot introduce any artifacts. If the clock were out of spec, data packets would fail and be retransmitted. If retransmissions failed, you’d experience data loss - either no sound or gaps in sound.
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