I don’t own an eR or fancy clocks, etc, but I find it fascinating and enjoy what others are discovering (as have I with other networking tweaks such as opticalModules). Not sure why a few posters always have to butt in with their ‘snake oil’ comments to try and make others feel stupid for what they’ve purchased and actually heard (vs relying on sycophantic theory and ‘measurements’). Just leave it alone - it’s okay if you don’t believe in it or would never try it yourself, but don’t insult others that do.
As this topic develops, there are three points I’d like to share…
Either John Swenson (ER designer) or Alex Crespi (UpTone owner) stated at Audiophile Styple that they knew most external clocks would likely be native sine wave, but they deliberately did not put a sine to square converter in the ER because doing it the right way required expensive circuitry. Sorry I don’t recall which of them said that, though at the end of the day, it should not matter IMO. Anyway, AdfterDark is putting sine to square converters into his clocks now, and does not charge any more for them vs. native sine wave clocks. So, either he is eating the cost of that expensive circuitry, or the conversion is not up to UpTone Audio’s standards for doing it the right way. You be the judge.
As far as value is concerned (noise reduction level achieved / $ spent) the Emperor Signature, Emperor Crown, and Emperor Double Crown versions provide far more bang-for-the-buck than higher or lower models. Mathematical analysis bears that out.
One poster over at Audiophile Style indicated the real sonic benefits begin at a -138 dB reduction.
Taken together, these are some of the key reasons why I purchased an Emperor Signature, with a native sine wave clock.
I’d also like to share what I think I’ve gleaned from many, many hours reading at Audiophle Style with regard to the best wave form, best cable, filters, and ohms. I’d love to provide links to all this, but it’s too much work. But it’s all out there for anyone who wants to invest the time. And if you think I’m misrepresenting any of the following, or just getting it wrong, and you can cogently explain why you disagree, I’d encourage you to tell us. So, what I think I’ve learned…
EtherREGEN prefers square wave signals, but some sine wave signals can still work very, very well.
If you are feeding a 75 ohm EtherREGEN with a sine wave signal, it does not matter a bit if the clock, the cable, or the filter is 75 or 50 ohm.
If you are feeding a 75 ohm EtherREGEN with a sine wave signal, the cable does not matter a whole lot as long as it’s a decent cable (not necessarily expensive) AND the cable has good shielding.
If you are feeding a 75 ohm EtherREGEN with a sine wave signal, you should be using one of John Swenson’s suggested filters (on the ER end of the cable).
AfterDark clocks don’t “burn in”, per se. But the quality of their signal improves significantly over time, peaking out at a little over a month of constantly being powered on.
If your AfterDark clock loses power, that signal improvement time will have to be repeated after power is restored to the unit.
Thank you for the suggestion. You probably missed it because my OP is overly wordy but I’m not breaking the mote. I am powering my ER with the PS that came with it. Which IMO is kind of interesting, as there is a disconnect between Alex Crispi maintaining the EtherREGEN should not benefit much from a PS upgade, and all the people saying that such an upgrade helped them. Well, I’m using the stock ER PS, and with the AD OCXO clock addition, it sounds wonderful.
I would think that perhaps this might not be an issue if one powered down and moves it then powers it right up again within a minute or 2 that the heat of the OCXO would still be basically up there still.
I have my loaner unit powered up and running into the ER now with network running A to B side and SPF Optical back to the rest of the network. I will remove the extra A port connections to my Roon Server (Win 10) also on HDPlex and perhaps move the ER back to the UpTone SMPS for giggles. Endpoint is the Lumin D1.
The mrs didnt notice any change (the system is in our shared WFH office room) but lets see what happens when I remove the AD clock and t=run internal then change it back in a few weeks.
If I cant tell the difference and she doesn’t say anything then no real benefit and I will pass it back to the friend I loaned it from.
The engineer in me tells me it should improve…My ears and system might tell me no change. Time will tell.
He isn’t at all. There isn’t any extra circuits inside. He is using the TTL output available on the clock. Don’t be fooled. Open you clock. Share a picture.
BTW: Ever figured out to measure phase noise one a square wave
The way to test is to use the switch from internal to external clock on EtherRegen while it’s running in either mode.
Pull the power plug in and out. So you have approximately only 5 seconds in loss of music switching between the alternatives.
The extra ports in use on A side shouldn’t affect the outcome of B, which you’re testing. Clocks is located B side. This is also why B>A may not be as good as A>B when an external clock is in use, as the clock will have added extra phase noise crossing the moat.
I agree in what Alex says. Still people seems to disagree with him
I think this is system dependent as well the listeninger ears. I’m using a LPS-1.2
To bad we don’t have other sites that do measurements apart from Amir’s site.
I just did a post there, and some of those people resting there, can be compared to those that still says the earth is flat. The response I got was shocking.
I agree using your best PS on the clock, as there’s hardly anything inside the clock regulate power feed.
OK, well I was not inclined to say this initially, so my next statement will be - by definition - heresay. I have an online friend that has been in communication with AfterDark who asked how he could convert sine to square without adding cost. I don’t know what the technical details of his reply was, but apparently (I did not see the email) he did admit that the sine wave clocks sounds better. So again, for any reader here, that is heresay: unproven and unprovable. But for myself, I trust my friend. I know the whole “he said… she said” thing is a slippery slope, so was reticent to share that.
And no, I have not looked in the box. AfterDark has made it very clear over at Audiophile Style that he’s unwilling to share pictures, so I’m going to respect that. We all know that implies he’s got something to hide. For myself I’m willing to assume it’s a design that’s easy to copy, and doesn’t want the competition to see.
And with that, I’m stepping out of the conversation. Will let the community take it from here…
Well, great material sounds fabulous. Mediocre material remains mediocre. And poor source material now sounds even more like crap.
Hi Scolly,
Exact observation on my AD Emperor double crown … to the teeth !
Had hoped John’s recommended low pass filter will somehow alleviate the worsen poor source of Singapore’s local fm internet radio station at 64kbps but seems you already are with the filter and same observations.
Guess some audiophile call it “revealing” w.r.t. a complete music playback system but had not experienced or heard to such huge extent before. Any reason even speculated this is the case and even how to alleviate this situation as also posted in audiophilestyle’s thread ?
Please dun get me wrong, I am still glad for the products of ER and external 10M clock from Uptone and AfterDark not withstanding quite a bit of coins for the fabulous sound quality with full flac stations like HiOnline, Frequence 3 etc. but will be nice if poor source of local fm station remains at least listenable which is not the case now … perhaps due to the huge disparity now.
Thanks for the post. I’m glad someone else has the same observations.
IMO you hit the nail on the head. “Revealing” is the perfect word. And IMO also the cause of the problem of bad stuff sounding worse. I recently was lucky enough to have another, dramatic example of that problem, when I upgraded my already nice speaker cables to a pair of Silversmith Audio Fideliums. The difference they made in terms of added realism was MANY times more dramatic than the change from an ER with AD OCXO clock. It was an enormous bump up in realism. But now I cannot bear to listen to poor material. At all. Sounds horrible. But the great stuff is glorious.
It’s a trade-off with any upgrade making your system more revealing, and a decision that people make. Or not. For myself it means that thousands of recordings I made of my old vinyl is now just unlistenable. It’s a trade-off I’m willing to accept. But other people may feel differently.
