Garbled & missing fonts

Support
21

@ RMB … Thank You so much for the link !!!

I kind of remembered something from MacRumors but not exactly what it was … so your link was very much appreciated. Saved me a fair bit of searching, that was good of you.

Yes, I agree it is a beautiful machine, though it is a few years old now (Late 2011 model started shipping in December 2011 I believe), I do like the ability to modify the storage and actually have 3 SSD’s inside (one of them an expresscard), plus it was the last 17” model from Apple. Have not felt the need to upgrade as even with Roon running, my CPU usage is still pretty stable at 96% idle … that is, only about 4% CPU usage. I have been monitoring the CPU usage of Roon, and it is very low impact, like JRiver.

Still, I will read up on this graphics card issue you linked too … I am not really into photography, video or gaming … so Roon may just be the first program that has been a bit more demanding graphic wise than the other apps that I use. Anyway, I will read up more on the link you provided and ship my MacBook to Apple to fix if needed.
Again, Thank You !

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@ Brian

RE “ I use this tool to monitor and manually switch between graphics adapters on my mac: https://gfx.io/"

Yes, it is a great tool !!! This is what I have been using to force switching from the Intel card to the AMD card when I have had a problem.

Most of the time it is the Intel card that plays up on me … though the AMD graphics card does as well (though much more rarely). So unfortunately it is both graphics cards being affected … with the Intel being much more sensitive.

Though this problem has happened a few times, it is more of a minor annoyance, that is I can fix it (most of the time) by using GFX card status as you suggested. Plus I am now thinking it may be wise to send it to Apple from the link provided by RMB. Plus “Metal” in the new OSX “El Capitan” may help further.

Some perspective, this issue is more of a minor annoyance in comparison to the other two thread I started recently ….

Missing Tidal Albums (and corresponding tracks)
— I dont think anyone from Roon Support has responded to that one yet.
— Happens on startup of Roon.
— Like this graphics issue, it is more of a minor annoyance

“Adding to my Library” makes all other songs in a Tidal Album disappear
— I believe Mike responded that a fix is in development
— Prioritising what is really affecting me, this is the one fix that I am very eager to see happen. It is more time consuming for me.

Even though I may have been a bit verbose in logging issues, I thought I would just take a moment to thank you & everyone at Roon Labs … what you have built is truly outstanding … I just love the UI. This may sound a bit funny, but it kind of brings the feeling of the interaction of Vinyl (with sleeve covers, liner notes) to the Digital age. Plus I love the music discovery aspect.

Early this year I was reading some reviews of the Meridian Sooloos system and thought … if they just separated the S/W from the H/W I would be very interested in that … and it happened. I am really enjoying Roon and will subscribe near the end of my trial (still dithering about going yearly subscription or full ownership). So a question not of “if” to subscribe to Roon, but what type.

Brian, thanks again for your help.

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Missing Tidal Albums (and corresponding tracks)
— I dont think anyone from Roon Support has responded to that one yet.
— Happens on startup of Roon.
— Like this graphics issue, it is more of a minor annoyance

Hm, ok. Two questions:

  • Does this fix itself if you go into settings->services and click “Sync Library Now”?

  • Do the tracks/albums ever come back? If so, when?

“Adding to my Library” makes all other songs in a Tidal Album disappear
— I believe Mike responded that a fix is in development
— Prioritising what is really affecting me, this is the one fix that I am very eager to see happen. It is more time consuming for me.

This is a product design/impedance mismatch issue that we’re still working out. We understand the problem, but we haven’t decided on how to solve it yet.

24

Does this fix itself if you go into settings->services and click “Sync Library Now”?

Yes it will fix it … until the next time I restart Roon … then I just do the “Sync Library Now”. Not a big issue and easy to fix, but I was going thru a lot of restarting so I was noticing it more.

Do the tracks/albums ever come back? If so, when?

Only if I do the above mentioned “Sync Library Now”.
Once that is done, it is stable until the next time I start Roon … so pretty much every time I start Roon … I need to “Sync Library Now”. The tracks/album never disappear during a session, seems to be solely a startup issue. As mentioned below I am not needing to restart Roon for about 24 hours.

By the way I am using GFX card status to force my MacBook to AMD graphics card all the time now (rather than letting GFX operate in Dynamic mode which would automatically switch between Intel & AMD) … and I have had stable graphics in Roon for the last 24 hours. What I did a bit differently this time was to do a cold start of my MacBook … with Roon disabled from automatically starting up … then forced my graphics card to be AMD (using the GFX utility) right from the get go … then started Roon.

Short answer : What is different…
So it was on AMD before I ever started Roon for the first time.
Previously I was waiting until I had a graphics issue in Roon before switching graphics cards. It has been perfect for the last 24 hours , I am happy with this.

25

Ok, strange. @mike, can you help @Duke send us logs for this TIDAL issue + create a ticket for this? I think maybe something is failing in the sync process at startup that (for some reason) succeeds later on.

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Brian, thanks for letting me know on how that issue is going … for perspective, this is really the only issue remaining that kind of annoys me.

… and on a completely different tangent … Roon continues to impress … never met a digital volume control that I ever liked before … tried the one in Roon and I can not detect any SQ degradation at all … this is a new & very positive experience for me.

… and going back On Topic … if this graphic issue behaves itself until the weekend, I suppose this issue could be closed. Looks like I have a fix … your suggestion of GFX made me think a bit more on how to utilise this graphics card utility a bit better (GFX force AMD after clean Reboot, prior to Roon starting). Thanks again for your advice, I appreciate you helping me … I certainly needed it :smiley:

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… and on a completely different tangent … Roon continues to impress … never met a digital volume control that I ever liked before … tried the one in Roon and I can not detect any SQ degradation at all … this is a new & very positive experience for me.

Roon doesn’t have a digital volume control :smile:

We hand off the volume command to the hardware (or the OS mixer, if you were not running in Exclusive mode), and it does what it will. In many cases, DACs implement very high quality internal volume controls (either in DSP or in the analog domain).

1 Like
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Aha !!! I wondered what was going on :smiley:

Brian, I appreciate the explanation. Thanks !

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I’ve got the garbled font problem
Is there a fix for this?

As far as I’m aware my macbook spec is good

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Your MacBook Pro is also equipped with two graphics systems: the ‘integrated’ Intel HD 3000 and and an AMD Radeon 6490M or 6750M. Can you try the same workaround that worked for Duke?

  • Download and install gfxCardStatus from https://gfx.io/
  • Reboot
  • Make sure that Roon is not running
  • Switch to your AMD graphics using gfxCardStatus
  • Start Roon

Making sure that your system only uses the AMD graphics and does not autoswitch to Intel seems to prevent the garbling – per Duke’s experiences.

1 Like
31

Hi RBM, Thank you for doing the bullet points of what worked for me, that is great (easier to read than what I wrote previously :smiley: ).

Just a note that it is very important not to have Roon automatically start at login (bullet point 3 from RBM) or manually start Roon … prior to using gfxCardStatus utility to select your AMG graphics card which is bullet point 4 by RBM (the option in the drop down menu of GFX should be called “Discrete Only”). If I did not follow this process in the order specified as per the bullet points above … say use the Intel graphics card for a while with Roon, then even manually switching to AMD would not save me.

So short answer : you need to be using AMD (“Discrete Only” in GFX drop down menu) right from the get go … before ever starting Roon.

Following the process that RBM articualted above … well I have not had one instance at all !!! of the garbled fonts/graphics. Before it was happening anytime from 5 minutes after starting Roon … and I have have been issue free now for the last 2 days, so it appears to have worked for me.

32

Thanks RBM
Following your instructions seems to have solved the problem so far

In case any one wants to know how it should look, I ticked discrete and the AMD card was automatically selected, although it is greyed out

1 Like
33

It’s good to know this workaround is solid.

There must be something weird going on between Roon and Apple’s dynamic graphics switching though – I run my core on a Mid 2011 Mac mini, sporting the same Intel HD3000 graphics w. 512MB video RAM, without any garbling whatsoever.

1 Like
34

The reason why the MBP’s have two Graphics cards is to do with Battery Life and Performance

In an ideal world. the MBP would just use the Discrete GPU all the time…and never the slower built in GPU

But the Discrete GPU will always consume more battery…which is something probably to add to the above instructions…i.e. make sure to turn back to Integrated or Dynamic Switching after using Roon

I think it would be interesting for those with this issue to try the “Integrated Only” option from above…which will prevent OSX from trying to switch between GPU’s…I suspect Roon will then operate fine, just as it does with your Macmini at the moment…worth somebody trying by following your above instruction sequence [i.e. Roon off before switch]…but instead try Integrated rather than Discrete

2 Likes
35

Hi RBM … yes I think your right … I just tried going back to test leaving it on dynamic graphics card switching (which usually stays on Intel HD 3000) and the garbled screen, which affects Roon only, came back. Hopefully Apple fix’s this with El Capitan … next month I will download a Beta verison of El Capitan and test it out on one of my SSD drives.

36

Yes, but it’s the “Dynamic Switching” which is likely causing the Font Display problems that you’re seeing…as evidenced by RBM’s experience of having no issue with the same graphics card and video memory in a Mac mini

Easy to try using GFX to fix the GPU on Integrated Only and see how Roon responds

As RBM instructions say though…reboot Mac…apply the GFX Status instruction…and only then start Roon

This will be better for battery life as well, if that’s a concern

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Hi Ronnie … that is a great idea … I am trying it now … “Integrated Only” that is using GFX to force it to Intel HD 3000 graphics card (right after a fresh boot of my MacBook) … then starting Roon. All OK so far. Will update the thread if this also fix’s the issue or not.

Great point about alerting about the battery life decreasing when using Discrete GPU like the AMD.

By the way, I am not a very fast typer :smile: I was just responding to your intial suggestion of forcing Integrated Only … right from the get go when I saw your last post.
Anyway … testing it now !

Thank you to you , RBM and everyone who has posted to this thread. I appreciate it,

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OK … I tried the following experiment … that is forcing Intel instead of the AMD graphics card …

Cold Reboot
Make sure that Roon is not running
**Switch to your Intel HD300 graphics using gfxCardStatus
Start Roon
Making sure that your system only uses the Intel HD300 graphics and does not autoswitch to AMD

Unfortunately the garbled graphics/missing fonts issue occurred within the first hour.

I was really hoping that this would work, dissapointed that it did not as the AMD graphics card is not as battery friendly (probably seeing about a 15% to 20% decrease in battery life … that is not scientific, just an ad hoc observation over the last few days).

Anyway, as far as my experience goes, the following is the only reliable fix (though it comes with a bit less battery life). Good news is that it has been very stable.

  • Download and install gfxCardStatus from https://gfx.io/1
  • Reboot
  • Make sure that Roon is not running
  • Switch to your AMD graphics using gfxCardStatus
  • Start Roon
  • Making sure that your system only uses the AMD graphics and does not autoswitch to Intel seems to prevent the garbling

Thanks gain to everyone who has contributed to this thread … sometimes I find that I can be too close to a problem, and talking about the issue leads to a fix much sooner.
Anyway, I am grateful to everyone helping.

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Sorry that didn’t work out as I’d hoped Duke…thought there was a decent chance that it might, given RBM’s positive experience using the same Intel HD3000 GPU and video memory in his Mac

Do you use your MBP as the Roon Server or Remote??

Attributing this issue to Video Memory alone is quite confusing I think!!!

I use a 2010 MBA 11" which has an NVidia GeForce 320m GPU as a Roon Remote…which uses a minimum of only 256Mb of shared RAM with main system…and I don’t see the problems described here by you and others

So, a slightly less powerful GPU, with less video memory…and a larger library than your stated 800 albums…but no problems???

Confusing!!!

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40

Hi Ronnie … I actually thought yours was a simple & elegant idea … those types of ideas are often the most effective … and the most reliable… I also thought “Why did I not think of that” … plus it was definitely worth a go to save some battery life :smile:

When I initially experienced the problem … I was trying to alter the Roon Settings for Video Memory & CPU core usage … hoping that it was a Roon Application setting that would fix it … I was more focussed on this as a fix as , like you say, RBM has been OK with the Intel HD3000 GPU … and you are running well with the NVidia GeForce 320m.

I use my MBP as a Roon Server … I must say other computer aspects like CPU usage are pretty non-demanding (like JRMC) … and my fan speeds stay low like 2000 RPM (so they are really just idling) … and free RAM is good (currently 9 GB free out of 16 GB), unlike something like Pure Music which tends to slowly gobble up RAM. So overall the H/W demands are not much even for a MacBook that was originally released way back in December 2011.

So the remaining suspects (at least on my Late 2011 MacBook Pro 17") are;

  1. Does not like the Intel HD 3000 GPU
  2. Does not like Dynamic switching (hoping this gets fixed with El Capitan)
  3. I have never graphically pushed my MacBook Pro , I do not run games, compile code, not into photography (being an audiophile is expensive enough … though fun!!!) even use FlashBlock utility to minimise graphic usage in my web browsers. Anyway I may have a developing hardware issue, that was mentioned earlier in this thread … I spent a couple of hours looking into the issue, though I dont think it applies to this Roon graphics issue, as my graphics issue solely occurs in Roon. I will install El Capitan OSX next month on one of my SSD’s (hoping the dynamic switching of GPU’s is improved in Apple’s next OS X), if that does not work, may try Apple for a h/w fix. So I may have a h/w issue developing, though never noticed it before as my MacBook has never really been pushed, even slightly, for graphics … at all.

I agree 100% confusing !!! This certainly was a weird issue.