Grouping tracks into a single composition

Hi @Andre_Gosselin

thanks a lot for your research. There is a simple reason why one of the composition names are in german in my example: I have maintained the WORK tag in german and Roon seems to first pick the WORK tag and then obviously tries to match to an existing record for the composer.
So when you change the composer this match can’t happen.

At least that’s my explanation for it. Having said that, I think that there is a little bit too much “wizardry” at work here and I’m not sure it’s for the best.

I do understand the strategy behind it, but I also beg the Roon team to understand the position of users who have groomed their collection with custom tags and now come into an environment where the system applies its own rules… For my collection of about 8000 albums, a quarter is not identified. But all albums have WORK, PART and COMPOSER tags properly maintained. Since it’s not possible to switch off Roons identification algorithm I end up with data inconsistencies I did not have before. And even with un-identified albums I’m ending with a mix of my tags vs. Roons.

I know that you can do composition merging, but honestly: why should I do that for more than a quarter of my collection (considering that even the identified albums will have some errors) if I have already spent years to maintain my tags???
Why not give the user the freedom to decide like with the preference of album tags and others? I’d really like to set “prefer file” for WORK and PART and switch off the magic. Let the users who want it or buy into Roon for exactly this reason have it but give us some control about it.

Additionally the whole Roon metadata environment is based on the assumption that we are all english speaking and reading… Maybe I’d prefer to have my artist biographies and work descriptions in german, french or spanish? Now I have a strange mix of my german tags together with english ones that I often not like :).

Thanks for thinking about it!

Klaus

Pardon me - I am new to Roon, and as part of my eval, am working through my library.

I’ve run into this problem too. Certain albums seem to resist grouping tracks into compositions. My first inclination was to select the relevant tracks and look for an action to “create composition.” Why isn’t this the obvious answer, and why is it not implemented? What am I missing?

This question aside, I then tried to massage my tags. I went into MP3Tag, selected these tracks, and renamed the Title tag to :

But now a basic question. How do I get Roon to reevaaluate these tags? I went into the metadata preferences for the album and selected “Prefer file” for everything. I then went to the Album Options and hit the Re-scan album buttom.

No change, nada, zip.

Please help!

But here again - why isn’t there a manual option to override this silliness by selecting the offending tracks, and creating a user-defined composition. Problem solved!

Again - what am I missing?

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I got it working eventually using the Composition: Movement syntax in the Title tag.

But I still feel this is missing functionality in the UI. Give me a way to select a bunch of tracks and in the edit menu, a way to create a composition. Done and dusted.

You guys (Roon) DO know that your vaunted metadata provider (Rovi?) is not perfect, right?

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@austinpop

that’s what I also observed: WORK and PART tags are often not considered unless I copy the WORK-PART combination to the TITLE tag.

Hi, @joel,

Has there been any progress on bulk updating these ungrouped compositions with the meta data suppliers? I have another example of the OP’s Schumann Etudes not grouping. It is a 4CD Géza Anda set from Membran Music (3rd CD).

But I have many other examples of ungrouped compositions. Sometimes I seem to be able to force a grouping by editing the track title to match another version that did group. But it is not consistent. Sometimes I can force a grouping by un-identifying and using WORK/PART. But this is usually not practical with a Box-Set as un-identifying can often break the tags that were working and make it necessary to re-tag the entire Box-Set.

I understand that the Etudes are a particularly awkward example but would appreciate an update on grouping in general.

Thanks / Tony

I have run into similar problems with Norrington’s recording of Bruckner 3 with the London Classical Players. The album doesn’t have an associated composition, and I can’t seem to get the individual track to group correctly into a composition.

Any further thoughts on how to manually do this? Is it even possible?

Assuming you own a local copy (CD or download) of the Norrington album, you could set COMPOSITION/MOVEMENT tags on the composition tracks using a tag editor like Mp3tag, not forgetting also to set “Composition/Part Grouping” to “Prefer File” in the Album “Metadata Preferences”. This is working fine for me. If you are working with a “cloud” copy (eg Tidal), I am afraid I have no immediate solution …

Hope this helps. Please keep meinformed.

Be gentle with me I am just starting …

I have just imported my library and am find all sorts of anomalous compositions.

In my previous system, I went to a lot of effort to add a Custom Tag for composition , i.e. A complete Sonata , A complete Symphony etc.

I used MusiCHI tagger to help populate that .(a Princely 20 Euros)

I have 2 comments really ,

  1. allow custom Tags to be imported and select to override the Roon data like some of the other Metadata, Prefer File etc.

  2. Have a chat with MusiCHI they have a very comprehensive database of works with dates . ( I think I have seen this mentioned before)

They can construct say Beethoven Symphony No. 5 in C Minor Op. xx (yyyy) , in my 40K classical tracks very few fooled it ! , mostly obscure composers.

This may well be a better source of classical data than the normal channels which have been traditionally far more interested in pop , rock & jazz etc.

Phillipe at MusiCHI has some very good ideas and is well worth a chat.

Mike

Sorry one last comment

It seems that the design of Roon was not aimed at being a “mass Tagging” program and that most metedata should come from Roon sources.

My library was tagged using JRiver MC which has very comprehensive tagging. For example you can see all the files in a datagrid for a specific file location and adjust tags en mass.

I am not suggesting that Roon follows suit but that Roon allows the import of pre tagged data in some mass way , global import settings somehow ?

There are many good tagging programs about , MusiCHI Tagger, Tag & Rename to name 2 so reinventing the wheel is daft , but I believe Roon needs some way of bulk correcting stuff that has been imported wrongly

Mike

Just a thought does Composition map to tag WORK on import

I have tag Work but not fully populated, I changed my mind and called it Composition it seemed more logical

It might explain why some work and others don’t

Mike

WORK and COMPOSITION tags are synonymous. Are are PART and MOVEMENT tags.

If you want to group tracks into compositions, you need WORK and PART tags.

Mike,
Roon handles COMPOSITION and WORK tags as equivalent. Ditto for MOVEMENT and PART tags. I personnaly use COMPOSITION/MOVEMENT, as the names seem more appropriate.

@Andre_Gosselin Worked great Andre! Thanks for the tip!

and… what about going the opposite way: I mean how can I break into single tracks something that Roon considers a composition? :expressionless:

thanks :slight_smile:

Try assigning different composition tags to the tracks you want to stand alone (setting for ex. composition tags to the tracks title). This should work.

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You should be able to use the same WORK (or COMPOSITION) tag, same PART (or MOVEMENT) tag, but different WORKID tags for each track.

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hhhhmmmmm… I’m using Yate (on Mac OS) as tag editor and I’m quite confused as all I see is “Work Name”, “Movement Name” and “Movement … of …”

tried anyway setting each track’s Work Name and Movement Name to track’s title (plus Movement 1 of 1 for each) but Roon still shows Track 1 as a composition (named after album’s title) consisting now of just track 1

better than before when all tracks were grouped as a composition but… :expressionless: I suspect one can’t fight on his own Rovi’s mistakes :stuck_out_tongue:

album, btw, is Ravi Shankar/Philip Glass “Passages”

EDIT: ok, refreshed the view (by going to a different album then back) and all is fine now :slight_smile:

@joel @support Have you actually sat down and edited work and part tags, track by track using something like dbpoweramp? Do you know what a royal pain in the A it is?

I just want to be able to select a bunch of tracks on an unidentified album and say “This is a composition” and have Roon group them. The track names already have the structure “Composer: Work; 1. Movement” - can’t you design something so Roon can read this structure from the track names?

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Thanks for sharing your feedback with us, @Malcolm_Percival, and sorry for the difficulties.

I’d like to recommend adding your voice to this post in Feature Requests:

Our product team and developers keep a close eye on that category, so that’s definitely the best place to propose a change like this and get feedback from the Community.

Thanks!
Dylan

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