Recently acquired a pair of second hand AKG K702, and a second hand Chord Mojo, and put together a cheap streamer using a raspberry pi + JustBoom DigiHat (feeding the Mojo over coax) + RoPieee … and also recently found the AutoEq headphone convolution filters that I’ve applied in Roon for the AKGs … and with high quality sources (e.g. Tidal, ripped CDs over Roon, etc) the setup just blows me away. Holy moly. And inexpensive.
Problem is, now when I listen to my (much more expensive) hifi system in my living room, ugh I want it to sound like my headphone setup!!! In particular the depth/foundation/soundstage just isn’t there. Part of it is my living room is probably THE arrangement an audio engineer would design if s/he wanted to demonstrate the worst possible acoustic environment for hifi listening. But I suspect even if the room were different it would be a very expensive white whale to chase to get a similar sound/feel.
Anyway little story and cautionary tale, it’s true that a headphone setup in terms of bang-for-buck is way better than a speaker setup.
I loved this story, I also have a set of good headphones and good at least for me living roon system.
I my case I like more the soundstage of the living roon system, but really I can listen to more types music on the headphones than on the living roon. The sound of the speakers can be ruthless with recordings and that makes me think I need to change the living roon amp to more musical one, great soundstage but ruthless with bad recordings, but when a good one enters the experience is really rewarding. The speakers are a pair of focal sopra n1.
The headphones are the focal utopia. They give an effortless presentation of detail and play most music in a form I can not get them out, better the dac I give to the focal utopia the better they sound.
But I am more a speaker guy and the soundstage of headphones is a very different experience not worse, simply very different.
It is cheaper for our wallet terms to have an high end sound on headphones than to have an high end sound in the living roon. Also the living roon could be a problem sometimes, but setup of the speakers in the roon can help a lot in getting a good and big soundstage.
If you really do want to try chasing that white whale, you’ll need loudspeakers that try to negate the impact of the room on the sound and of course get them setup properly with a microphone and suitable software (REW etc) for a flatter response.
Occasionally, a speaker review will mention that a speaker ‘sounds like headphones’ as a compliment. Speakers such as the Dutch & Dutch 8c and the Kii Three have certainly had that type of comment in past reviews and were both designed to remove some of the room impact on the sound. An expensive whale to chase indeed. Let us know how you get on.
The Mojo is a fantastic little DAC+headphone amplifier, and I understand what you are saying about your main setup.
All I can say is that speakers and correct placement had the greatest impact in my room. I have a modest Arcam A19, but this comes with a brilliant phono stage and headphone amplifier, paired with a Chord 2Qute (least impact) and Neat Momentum SX3i (greatest impact.)
Also, consider used, as long as you can audition. I saved around £2k on list with PX shopping around three years or so ago. End of line products are also worth seeking out; the 2Qute was £600-800 new after the Qutest was released. And my NUC8i3 under £300 all in when new models were released.
You don’t need to spend the earth to enjoy good music.
Finally got around to spending some time alone in the house measuring the speaker setup with a microphone and REW, and designing some convolution filters.
What a difference! Less boomy bass, smoother roll off in the high frequencies (less ‘sparkly’ and fatiguing), and better stereo imaging, I assume because the right hand speaker is next to a bookcase and thus had a rather different measured frequency response in the room compared to the left speaker.
Also did an experiment suggested by a friend … played some low frequency test tones and took a walk around the room, finding the dead zones and the spots where the frequency was boosted. Holy moly. A 60 Hz test tone completely disappears about 3 feet in front and 1 foot to the left of the listening position, like it isn’t even playing. That’s room modes for you.
This is the method I use to tweak placement. During the winter months, my listening room becomes the living room, so I’ll soon have exclusive occupancy again, and can remove the grills and give the speakers more space.
I’ve been an avid headphone user for almost 20 years and also have what would be considered a mid-level audiophile stereo setup. I usually don’t compare the sound of headphones to the sound of loudspeakers since the two are very different.
Notice that I wrote “different” and while I don’t have a real preference for one over the other there are aspects of each one that do prefer. For example the bass and soundstage from speakers is superior to the bass from headphones. However with headphones one is able to hear much more detail. Perhaps a good way to think about the unique qualities and differences of speakers versus headphones is to think about the unique qualities and differences between a good home stereo system versus a really good automobile sound system, “sound” not “stereo” since stereo is really not possible in an automobile. Both are enjoyable and yet the two are very different.
In my experience, room acoustics are just as important as speakers. Electronics these days are generally so good, they don’t make as a big a difference as the room or speakers. With proper acoustics, one can enjoy a beautiful deep soundstage.
For me, no matter how clear they sound, headphones cannot match visceral, “the band is in my living room” sound of a good pair of speakers in a property acoustically treated room.
I listen more on headphones these days and notice the affects of the room so much more when I go back to speaker systems.Room mods are not possible and speaker placement is also limited due to how the rooms used. Nice to have a dedicated room with sound mods but for the majority of us thats really not possible, our rooms are living areas that serve all purposes. For me I have found the best practice position then have to use DSP to get it fine tuned. You get the soundstage but overall I think my headstations get an overall better experience and for much more modest costs. I won’t be spending any more money on my main rig in the future as it’s just wasted.
If you don’t have the space and or funds to setup a decent stereo system headphones are the best alternative one can get. Even though my stereo setup is pretty decent and setup well I enjoy headphones from time to time. Sennheiser HD600 on a tube amp are something special I just can’t live without…
Although I have a decent open back headphone setup and also a room with a stereo setup, my goto is a near field active desktop speakers and sub with a external USB Dac tied into Roon.
It is not quite as detailed as my headphones but very close in detail, but the sound stage is just awesome thru Roon. This is by far my favorite setup.
Getting back to your original post, it is hard to beat critical listening from my headphones when I’m laid back in my recliner with my eyes closed. Unfortunately for me, this is not very often or should I say not enough.
I bought the Mojo when I decided to move away from 2-channel listening (She Who Must Be Obeyed doesn’t share my interest in music) and the cost for repairing my gear was too high for her taste. Just wanted to see if it would even come close to my very nice (Audio Research, Wilson) 2-channel system. With Focal Elear headphones attached to the Mojo with Silver Dragon cable (Moon Audio, Cary, NC), I was delighted to hear music without the typical and headache-inducing missing information problem/horrible dynamic range one hears so often with DAC/headphone combinations. I was enjoying music almost as much as from my retired 2-channel system. Even got some soundstage. Good headphones and the Mojo truly rock! Happy adventures in music listening. There are definitely better options out there and I have some of them, but I actually enjoy going back to the Mojo/Elear combination to listen to streaming concerts, performances and for streamed movies. Always a delightful surprise.
Im gonna be 81 in July and partially deaf in my left ear. I have a sensorineural hearing loss so if i get enough volume my ability to hear the entire frequency spectrum is possible.
I decided to get a headphone so I put together a starter system.
Meze Elite headphones
Chord Hugo TT2
Chord M Scaler
Sparkos Labs Aries amp (has balance control)
Roon Nucleus
Tidal and Qobuz subscriptions
I only have one word to describe the experience: OMG
