Since it’s most certainly not all that difficult, let me introduce you to Dr. Wonder’s Amazing Snake Oil!! (aka the high end audio cable and wire industry - there’s gold in them there hills!!)
2 Likes
I’ve always wanted to do this. If I offend or it is inappropriate pls let me know and I’ll delete it
High end audio cable
- True and valuable
- Snake Oil
0 voters
Xmas offer. Take 1 pay for 2.
10 Likes
Let’s not characterize other forum users, Charles.
But my attitude is certainly that what people hear is highly individual, even specific to a time and place, and in the absence of actual measurements or even recordings of the differences, it’s not worth paying much attention to. Not negative, I think; it’s just not interesting data for others (like me) to act on. So let’s not treat it as a revelation. And it’s true I’ve never bought into one of the cults of personality that seem to attach to various manufacturers.
Yes, I remember buying stereo equipment in the 70’s (some of which I still have). RMS and Peak and lord knows what all. I hadn’t realized it was still going on, though.
1 Like
That’s when the FTC stepped in and stopped the randomness of the manufacturer specifications and set forth the mandate of RMS being the standard at that time.
FTC being the federal trade commission, United States, I have no idea what they did in other countries after that?
It’s too bad and very sad that people find humor offensive. Happy Holidays!
3 Likes
Unfortunately it’s time to put a hold on crazy again…you guys definitely have it down pat!
Let’s please be civil and respectful in this forum.
Thank you.
3 Likes
I disagree with the assumption that if it measures good it will sound good. I live in a remote area so buy most of my hifi gear online and rely heavily on reviews. I will read dozens of reviews to get a picture of a piece of equipment and one review site that I now never read is Amirs audioscience. It is all about measurements which imho gives you about 25% of the story. What is sounds like is the all important factor. Measurements may give you an inkling of the potential sound which will allow one to cull certain pieces of equipment. A good example of this is headphone frequency curves whereby if I see a frequency curve where there is a big rise in the sub 500hz region the headphone will generally not be to my liking hence I can cull them. There seems to be an unhealthy preoccupation with measurements. Chinese manufactures are very good at producing items that measure out of this world. I own several pieces of Chinese hifi which are exceptional value for money but interestingly the equipment that I own measure the worst. To summarise, measurements can allow you to cull but hearing is the final arbiter. I also play guitar and my valve amplifiers have a sound unmatched by solid state amplifiers but valve amps have terrible measurements which is part of the reason they sound so good.
Really not a good poll since the answer lies somewhere between useful and snake oil. No cable can really be considered snake oil since they actually work. And there is some value to having a well made and designed cable versus a cheap freebee cable. The issue is whether or not a mega-buck cable offers any real sonic improvements over a less expensive but equally well made cable.
1 Like
Frank, I think you’ve put your finger on it.
I don’t want my equipment to “sound like” anything. I just want to hear the music. The “fi” in hi-fi stands for “fidelity”, and they’re talking about fidelity of reproduction. Of the music. The equipment should be aurally invisible.
Now, one might enjoy the distortion introduced by certain things, like valve amplifiers. At least for some music. With bad music, or badly mastered music, introducing distortion may in fact improve the listening. But you’d also have to listen to good music through it, where the distortion would be unwelcome. Me, I’d like to skip the bad music that requires euphonic distortion, and just listen to the good music with equipment that has no ‘sound’ of its own.
3 Likes
In that case I’ll check both 
Thanks fo the feedback, you are right
1 Like
I’m a big fan of DSP and use it with my active speakers (Sanders)
But the voice in my head keeps asking me why I have such an expensive DAC (DAVE/Blu2) when I’m only listening to the ADC/DSP/DAC chain in my preamp !!!
Can’t win 
Happy Christmas all
1 Like
Yes But that is not the point. The discussion here is about how to avoid snake oil from “truth” in audio gear. There are so many products on the market, so I don’t think it will possible to liste to all of them. Sure - that way you could eliminate “snake oil” - but I don’t think it would be practical.
Merry Christmas
Torben
2 Likes
Everyone’s level of snakeoil is different though. Some people say cables don’t make a difference and buying expensive cables is snake oil. Where do you even draw the line? If people argue about measurements in gear imagine measurements in cables? Yet they do make a difference.
In the end, we listen and if we hear something and we’re happy with the outcome and they price we paid for X is acceptable to that individual for whatever it is they’re hearing differently, then maybe it was worth it for them?
One’s person’s snake oil can be another’s end game.
Al least we can all agree that audio rocks with glitter on them is snake oil.
1 Like
Can you all define „truth“ in the realm of audio gear? I’ll get my 
.
Hello Everyone,
Here’s a gentle reminder from the community guidelines.
Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it, and that doesn’t mean to imply their point is “utter crap” or similar. So, remember to criticize ideas, not people, and avoid:
- Name-calling.
- Ad hominem attacks.
- Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content.
- Knee-jerk contradiction.
Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation. And, if you can’t do this, then maybe, you have nothing to add.
1 Like
As an audiophile for over 50 years, I stick with brands that consistently deliver the best sound, value and resale value. For example Aerial, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Mcintosh Labs, and VTL These brands build very high quality gear that last decades, and they repair their gear promptly and reasonably if ever there is an issue. Purchasing components that are lightly used is a big money saver, and the only real way to determine if you like a piece is to own it, after you do your research. I always thought Shunyata Research was a rip off, their gear is not inexpensive, until I tried one of their line conditioners and it removed background noice that nothing else did. This was a nice step forward for my system. Enjoy the music!
2 Likes
I do think it would be helpful to define ‘truth.’ Truth is a tricky thing when it comes to the senses, and even something as ‘scientific’ and straightforward as measurements is a slippery slope. Is everyone measuring the same? Has the right thing even been measured, or is there a whole new realm to be discovered in relation to how we hear?
As far as choice? Just like everything in life, one essentially just has to make a choice, and that could/should be based on many thing. When one goes to the store to buy coffee, do you pull out some sort of spec/measurement sheet and consult it? No, you buy a brand you know, or maybe something’s on sale and you’ll try it, or you like the packaging, strain, etc etc. Many different factors come into play. Same with anything else.
You come across sounding as if you can’t make decisions for yourself (which I’m sure is not the case) and that you are scared of being duped. In that case, establishing a good dealer contact is paramount where one can audition, and tamping down GAS and FOMO in one’s self in general, which is what mfgs prey upon (if we didn’t all insist on the newest shiny thing every six months, then they would have a lot less incentive to put out newer and newer ‘snake oil’). A dealer will also ‘limit’ the choices on hand, which can be a good thing. At this stage in the industry, as its been pointed out by others, most hifi is reasonably good and pretty much similar at whatever price point one chooses, so after that, its a matter of aesthetics, brand allegiance, and lifestyle (and as above, what your dealer carries).
I personally would not advocate $1000 cables etc to anyone, but I’ve gone over to a friends house to hear his new $20k system, and man, not only some room treatment, but a few $100 cables above and beyond the hardware store extension cable/power strip he was using might have made some positive difference, because it did not sound the least bit cohesive (loud yes). But then again, I could not supply measurements for those $100 cables, so what do I know…
1 Like
Here is a fine example of an audio tweak that many of us can easily agree is not snake oil since its design is based on established and well understood acoustic principles and it is not outrageously priced. Properly used a few Quadratic Diffusers would most likely make a much more noticeable improvement in the sound of one’s audio system then many other “questionable” tweaks costing much more.
3 Likes