as a starter (my first system of any quality is almost to it’s first stage of completeness) i made my journey in the last 3 years. Thankfully i’m not without experience in the audio world (worked as a engineer at a PA builder comp. and build 10+ speakers and caraudio setups) but still i found it difficult. If you start out to gather info on how to build your system the ‘snake oil’ and dodgy reviewers are the first to find. It’s hard to get rid of this first impressions you get then. I found the most difficult that i just don’t know.
I do trust my ears, it literally defines my hobby, and i can recognise shortcomings in my system. So when i have some money left over i really want to see if i can enhance it, and there lies the problem. What to do, who to trust? I do not have the resources (nor would want to spend them) to simply try a 1000 eur cable to find it does not do anything.
So in the past years i’ve learned and decided for myself where i put my money and succeeded to make a system with parts i like for their design, quality and philosophies behind it. But i could i have done without the wood of products i didn’t need but did not know then.
So these threads may help people like me when they are in their first phase of research, people enjoying the hobby for several years, having completed a system (to whatever degree) may not so much.
Valid point. Well, for him and his ASR project speak the science based approach, no advertising, and his decision to publish every review independent of the outcome. May be positive or one ripping a product to shreds. This alone is a refreshing attitude very different from many other reviewers only padding backs of manufacturers they hope to score ads from. Nevertheless also Amir should be taken with a grain of salt. The thing is, while the majority of other sources reeks if not even stinks, here is nice alternative. Committed to science, measurements, transparent methods and with very little financial interests other than a patreon option to chip in. But again - should not be the only source, though an important one. YMMV
Well, that escalated quickly. And is a quite convenient excuse to avoid the topic if properly misunderstood. Guess this was pretty good explained later in the thread.
Hearing and measurements are paramount. With eliminating seeing and knowing during critical listing if you want to avoid your brain cheating your ears.
If we agree the hobby is high FIDELITY there should be no real discussion about such an approach. Fidelity is easy to measure. Question is if one likes another instrument or an accurate sound reproduction apparatus. But then we should be truthful about that.
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Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
71
The subsequent discussion of his measurements is often the most interesting part. And, of course he has an agenda. Everybody does.
Reading through some of the thread on the Naim Atom on ASR, it’s easy to spot the fallacy of many users there. For example - Amir or no one commenting on the measurements actually listened to the unit. One user who owns one, comments that the 40W amp sounded much better than the 80W amp in his Denon state of the art AV amp. But that can’t be, chimes in another user, because 80W has to be twice as good as 40! Anyone that has listened to a Naim amp knows their watts rate differently from those of Japanese hifi, not to mention the overall sound of their amps, regardless of the wattage. But it’s this reductionist pablum predicated only on numbers that are doing a great disservice to those wanna be audiophiles. It’s like the Spinal Tap amp goes to 11 joke - it must be better!
Why be in the hobby? It’s about listening not measuring. I couldn’t disagree more, and there’s a A LOT of good measuring pieces of equipment out there that sound lifeless, dull, flat.
Whenever someone can point out where in a measurement I look to show depth of stage, instrument placement or simply sounding organic, engaging and enveloping me as a listene; maybe then I’ll pay more attention measurements.
One look at Amir’s top “measuring” DACs is enough to convince me that my position works for me just fine, it’s pointless to argue the point and I’m happy for all those to buy equipment based on measurements if it works for them.
Happy holidays and happy listening to all.
Until that day, I’m happy to simply listen.
1 Like
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
74
Almost Russian! Our watts are better than your watts!
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Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
75
I’m having a bit of cognitive difference here… One look? You didn’t listen to them? How can you possibly know how superb they sound?
Not what I meant. But we know Bill that you have never actually listened or compared anything, or at least that’s the way you come off. Nothing but negative towards any actual user experience. Gets very old and not a good look. But I guess it’s my fault for wading once again into the ASR sub forum here at Roon.
I’ve listened to a few of them, and even use one of them optical out from my TV where it belongs.
The reality is that there’s little bad gear out there today, you just need to find the right place for it. Synergy is so important, more important that measurements.
By ‘rate’ I was using the non-scientific slang for 'different." Plus it’s been well know for decades that many manufacturers use different standards and testing to express amp wattage maximums, so a 40w Naim amp can easily stand up to and even go beyond a cheap 200W AV amp. But hey, a generic Amazon brand AV amp for $300 with 400w of power must blow the socks off all of those poorly made 50-100 w audiophile amps because, derp, the number is 4-8X bigger…
Yes this was during the stereo receiver wars era , silver face mostly Japanese manufacturers. This is what lead to RMS measurement being established as the standard reference to this day.
Having worked with communications equipment HF thru microwave, GPS, packet data via RF I really do find it comically amazing that it’s so darn difficult to send a very technically mundane signal such a short distance reliably. I really dig the two page adverts in Stereophile magazine it gives me the chuckles just like MAD magazine used to
