There should not be any reason for a limited capacity for updates
That’s why we were discussing the platform as that has an impact. If the chipset is newer then there is no reason why they cannot update the platform over time and put a newer Kernel in as well. It’s just strange that it did not launch with it. There might be a compatibility reason, but who knows at this time.
I was on the cusp of ordering one of these today until I saw it doesn’t have a physical remote for volume control.
Hi folks, I’ve been through the long journey of getting the Zen Stream finally working to specs after the slew of firmware upgrades we patiently waited for. More on that under @Michael_Harris’s own terrific thread.
I purchased the Neo Stream mainly to have the ability to upsample to DSD 512 in Roon, and the unit accomplishes that in spades. However, there is a known bug that is present even in the latest 2.15.15 beta firmware—when the unit is running in Roon Ready mode, the artwork will not load on the hardware GUI, either from Tidal or Qobuz.
I spoke to iFi about this last week, and they are aware of the bug (they have replicated it on their own devices). They assured me that a fix is forthcoming, but there was a four day holiday in China over the weekend and they asked me to be patient this coming week as they troubleshooted the issue.
Other than that flaw, I’m delighted with the unit. I’ve tested upsampling to both PCM 768 and DSD 512, and they both work with my Topping d90SE. The hardware GUI is small but is nicely rendered. I’m not sure how necessary this proprietary optical LAN hardware is; I was able to get stutter-free playback using regular old Ethernet to my router, but I suppose it may improve latency for folks with slower internet.
I’ll be posting an update on the GUI artwork issue as soon as I hear back from iFi. It seems that they worked out most of the hiccups with the Zen Stream, but we’ll see…
I had already posted. DSD 512 or equivalent PCM is a regular 50Mb bitrate.
So with properly configured 1Gb ethernet, there is no problem. I would say the same with modern wifi.
DSD 256 > 23 Mb/s (via ZenStream)
DSD 512 > 47 Mb/s (via RPI 4 as streamer)
DSD 1024 > 98 Mb/s (Via RPI 4 as streamer)
DSD 1024 :
Can I clear something up here? There is a balanced audio jack on the back of the Neo Stream. Is that for headphones, or is it a standard output that can go to an amplifier, using the right adapter cable?
It’s a balanced line out, similar to the output on the Zen DAC v2 or Pro iDSD Signature. It is designed to feed into an amp, not headphones. The Neo Stream is not designed to be a preamp or headphone amp—it is strictly a streamer and DAC. IFi makes a pentaconn to pentaconn short cable that can be used with their own amplifier line.
This unit is designed to be a streamer/DAC, fed into an outboard amplifier. The rotary dial is meant to control the menu functions.
One nice feature I’ve discovered is that you can have two separate outputs attached to the NS and can switch between outputs in Roon or via the NS’s own software GUI.
For instance, I have a USB output going into my outboard DAC, which is connected to a headphone amp. I also just hooked up the NS’s digital pentaconn output going to a separate amp running desktop speakers. In this configuration the NS’s internal DAC is used.
I can switch back and forth between headphones and desktop speakers within the Roon Settings, or within the software GUI on the NS. They can’t be active simultaneously, however.
I was surprised that the analog outputs were fixed with no variable option. I lack the courage to connect a line stage output directly to my amps and rely solely on Roon’s software volume 
If you have device volume enabled in Roon then the NS’s multifunction knob will control volume (if you’re using the internal DAC).
They added another beta the other day by the way, 2.15.16. Still no fix for the artwork in Roon Ready mode. I harassed ifi again yesterday and they said the fix is in process. It’s a pain to reach them because they’re on London hours, but they respond to me every day!
Just got my with firmware 2.15.16. Roon’s artwork needs some time to show on TFT panel.
And something interesting on playing DSD through Roon:
Device volume control on Roon can control NEO Stream’s Mixer well, no matter Software or Hardware mode, good job.
What sampling rate of DSD are you trying to play over S/PDIF? All DSD files up to 128 are converted to 192khz (and usually 16 bit) through coaxial S/PDIF; optical usually maxes out at 96.
If you’re primarily aiming for an S/PDIF signal (although your comment doesn’t exactly suggest that), I think this unit is way overkill—the Zen Stream is more than sufficient to handle that task. This unit is remarkable and unique for its ability to stream DSD512 and PCM768–even the feloniously priced PS Audio, NAIM and dCS units almost all peak out at 256/384.
Other than these assets, the NS is really overkill even for my purposes—I already have a DAC that I love and I’m only using the NS as a network transport and streaming host. Even so there are far cheaper, better measuring streamer DACs out there (like the SMSL DP5, that had ES9038pro DA chips!)…
S/PDIF can handle DSD64 in DoP easily and many DAC support it, I use DSD64 in DoP on Allo DigiOne and Lumin D1 and other transports’s S/PDIF for years.
Let Roon do DSD to PCM conversion is ok for me, actually Roon did a better job compared to some DAC’s internal conversion.
S/PDIF is not the only thing I need, I also use USB DAC and internal DAC and they perform well so far.
PS: I can’t find bandwidth spec. of I2S on manual or Web site, anyone try it out?
Yes I never said DOP couldn’t handle DSD64, it’s just not possible to play native DSD over S/PDIF. There is indeed an option to select DSD over PCM with the NS’s digital output (which includes S/PDIF and AES) if you make these selections in the NS (or ZS) software GUI. They’re still working out some bugs in Roon Ready mode so I haven’t been using it as of yet to say whether the appropriate options are selectable like they are in AIO mode.
IIS specs are the same as USB (max DSD 512 and PCM 768), if you have a DAC with a compatible pinout. However, since IIS is not a bidirectional asynchronous pathway, MQA is not supported, at least not as of the most recent info that I have.
Despite what Paul McGowan likes to say, USB is the superior format for digital audio signal transmission over IIS anyway, for any number of reasons—but especially if you have a good DAC. USB by its asynchronous nature puts your DAC’s clock in master mode, and avails itself of the buffers in your DACs input receiver to help maintain proper timing.
Wow, iFi released a major new firmware update (non beta) that fixed all the issues I’d encountered, in particular the artwork not showing in Roon Ready mode! After the update you have to unplug the unit and plug it back in, then switch to Roon Ready mode and update the settings in the Roon Audio “configure device” screen.
This latest update really demonstrates the level of sophistication this product has over the original ZS, despite the similar GUI. With Roon I see no advantages to upgrading to Volumio 3 at all. I also tried switching to the internal DAC, and it sounds equally fine. The unit seems to have a robust output voltage—my Topping outputs close to 5.3 volts, and the gain on the internal Burr Brown DAC is higher.
I likely won’t continue using the internal DAC, but overall I’m glad I upgraded.
I noticed when you connect a non MQA dac to the digital output of the neo stream the neo does a software unfold, when the same dac is connected over usb it doesn’t unfold.
Is this new firmware for all iFi devices, so also for the ZEN stream?
I’m not sure what you mean—USB is a digital output. You mean via IIS or S/PDIF? Whether the device performs a software unfold is dependent on the MQA passthrough settings in the software GUI.
It’s for the NS. I disconnected my ZS so I can’t say whether they’ve upgraded that firmware— @Michael_Harris do you know?