Ok and this avoids unnecessary network traffic? So file stored on innuos which is processed by Roon on innuos then sent to the streamer then to DAC?
What about tidal stuff? Is that also processed on the innuos by Roon and sent to the streamer?
What’s happening in this setup to improve the SQ compared to just using the innuos?
Cheers
H
I don’t own a streamer so can’t answer in detail. But Innuos are UPnP servers and are controlled by the apps on the streamer. They are often used that way with streaming DACs. As far as Roon, see Innuos use cases: http://www.innuos.com/en/go/installing-roon
It avoids (constant) 2-way network traffic when a file on Innuos SSD is sent backwards to the core, then forwards to Innuos as player.
Tidal and other services can also be accessed directly from streamer apps, depends on what they support. You have to research them.
SQ - I assume you get the SQ of the streamer. You avoid Innuos software.
Hi from my experience the best sq from innuos with a roon core is direct to dac (or to a usb regen and then the dac). Using the squeezelight mode for roon in innuos is better again. You can use tidal in roon this way also.
Sending to a streamer is a little redundant as the innuous outputs a pretty clean signal. A streaming dac less so if no cruft is getting in via the ethernet setup (ie routers etc).
I bought a used Statement a few months ago. I started with iPeng and thought the Roon sounded better. I preferred Roon as Core and Endpoint over iPeng but maybe I did not have the iPeng set up correctly.
Then experimental mode was a bit improvement is SQ. Then I wanted to separate the Core and Endpoint. To me using DSP in Roon on the Statement to output DSD was not good at higher DSD 256 and above. I purchased a used Antipodes Core with an i5 processor and set it up as a Roon core and set the DSP to DSD 512 and prefer it to Experimental Mode.
I have 3 switches. An etherregen between my Frontier Router and Audio System. It is connected by Optical Fiber to a SOtM sNH 10G with the sCLK EX which is connected to an English Electric 8Switch. The Antipodes is connected to the SOtM and the 8Switch is connected to the Statement. The ethernet cables are SOtM DCBL Cat7 or ISOCat6.
Adding the switches and changing to Fiber completely opened up the sound stage adding blackness and weight and space.
I had my TV’s ethernet on the outside of the Etherregen and found the extra network traffic on the Etherregen added distortion to the music. I now have the TV on the Router outside the audio system.
The Antipodes Core is also a server with storage. Playing the same file from the Antipodes and Statement, the Antipodes is a little smoother or softer, the Statement give a little more life and maybe a touch of harshness. Maybe that is due to the extra network traffic/noise from the Statement to the Antipodes then back to the Statement?
Stephen, thanks for posting your system. Can you perhaps discuss the reasons behind use of the three separate switches and what they are meant to do in your setup? Why are the Antipodes and Statements on two separate switches? Could you do as well connecting them serially to the EtherRegen? It’s been said that the more boxes and cables, the more opportunities for interface noise and EMI, EMI in this case from the router as the other units may avoid SMPS.
Robbi, I wish I had a smart reason for 3 switches- I don’t. Kind of stumbling and bumbling my way along.
After getting the Statement and Roon I was able to easily listen to Tidal and Qobuz. They were not close to the sound quality to files on the Statement.
The Statement was connected by cat5 to a router, I read about noise from the router and ordered an Etherregen. I have several Uptone power supplies and USB regenerators and felt they had a postive effect on sound quality. While I was waiting for the Etherregen to be produced and shipped I came across an ad on AudioMart for a used sNH 10G with Farad Power supply and SOtM cables. I had read that using 2 switches was better than one so I purchased the SOtM switch and cables and had them before the Etherregen. Width the SOtM there was no missing the improvement and Tidal and Qobuz were sounding much closer to the files on the Statement. Adding the Etherregen I prefered it between the internet router and sNH 10G.
Adding the Etherregen did not make the sound come alive like the sNH 10G but it did improve clarity. I will say the SOtM ethernet cables are needed for the sound to come alive.
I ordered the English Electric 8Switch out of curosity after realizing the benefit of the SotM and Etherregen. It took a month to receive it, and in that time I realized I could utilize the fiber connection between the Etherregen and the sNH 10
G. I ordered Startech SPF1000ZXST single-mode transceivers and a 4 meter Startech single mode fiber LC-LC patch cable on e-bay. It was plug and play. The fiber optical cable dropped the noise flood I hear so many small details now.
I received and installed the 8Switch basically at the same time as the fiber optical cables. The 8Switch brought the music to a new level of richness, weight and seemed to add space and reverbration without loss of low level detail. I initially put it between the internet router and the Etherregen. Suddenly Tidal and Qobuz were better than files (including high rez) from the Statement.
As my roon core is on the Antipodes, files from the Statement are sent to the Antipodes thru the sNH 10G for DSP and then back to the Statement as a renderer and then to my DAC. I moved the 8switch between the sNH 10G and the Statement and did get a similar effect as I was getting on Tidal and Qobuz with music played from the Statement as files are passing back and forth thru the 8Switch going to the Roon core on the Antipodes. I am considering adding another 8Switch between the Etherregen and internet router to see it I get more of the effect.
The only SMPS is the purpose built power supply for the Antipodes. The 8Switch is powered by an Uptone JS2 as it the Uptone LPS1.2 on the Etherregen. The sNH 10G is on a Farad. The noise floor has dropped considerably, it is hard to describe but the music ebbs and flows, swells and receeds and is much much more relaxed. The timing and pace are now very natural.
And also response to Hugo. I had the latest Innuos version installed. I did some more listening in experimental mode for files stored on the Innuos Zenith: no skipping and good sound quality except when switching to listen to something else. There is skipping at the beginning. When I go back to the start of the file (clicking play back arrow) then all works well without skipping. Next test is to see how it works when integrating Qobuz streaming… but so far so good!
Stephen, thanks for the description. I’ve seen various systems with multiple switches and wondered. Common mode filtering is needed coming from the router to server, so it’s no surprise that just a cat5 was easily bettered by almost any filtering added thereafter. For the rest, I question what is going on, particularly in chaining switches that were designed as 8-port LAN connectors. They may each add a little filtering but not much else. Before I’d buy into all of it, I’d find a knowledgeable engineer and spend time researching/discussing what these units actually contribute and how to do it more efficiently (and cheaper).
For my part I initially set up a Gigafoil filter connected with Shunyata basic ethernet cable (Venom) between router (+LPS) and server. The Gigafoil has optical isolation as well as a filter bank. However Shunyata’s top ethernet cable (Sigma), which has the same Venom cable but adds two embedded common mode filters, turns out to be far better than the Gigafoil arrangement on noise reduction. So I’m using Sigma now but wondering whether it’s enough. One significant lesson: the Gigafoil and Sigma cannot be chained. If they are set up in series, there is a severe drop in dynamics.
robbi, I am almost clue-less when it comes to understanding the electronics. I do spend time reading and have found there is usually a lot of disagreement about what is right and wrong to with most topics, so I decide what camp seems reasonable and start down that path. There are posts that state cables dont matter for ethernet, switches dont matter, power supplies dont matter and of course I have found they do matter a lot. As far as multiple switches I have read many posts about using 2 or more with benefit with of course disagreement on which switches to use.
My experience is an increase in dynamics first adding the SOtM sNH 10G to the Etherregen and then adding the EE 8Switch to the 2 switches.
I dont know what the SOtM filters do technically but again adding them increased dynamics. I have the dCBL 7Cat’s between the 8Switch and Statement and between the sNH 10G and the 8Switch. I have a SOtM ISO Cat6 filter with Black cables from the sNH 10G to the Antipodes Core.
It has been expensive but I have no regrets as the benefits in my system have been so good it is hard to describe. I have no desire to sell any of the switches and am contemplating adding another 8Switch.
The skipping at the start is likely due to roon: that the new track is a different sample rate to the one before. In roon settings for the dac specifically, set Resync Delay to 1500ms and see how you go.
Thanks to Hugo for the time delay tip: I tried this and it doesn’t sort out the skipping issue in the experimental mode. My experience so far is that when you let Roon just do it’s thing without messing with the queue, then all is well without skipping. But when switching to e.g. shuffle a different genre or artist, then it skips systematically at the beginning. What then helps always is Robbi’s tip quoted above. After this action, no more skipping.
So all in all it’s a bit annoying but functional enough to get Roon functionality with better sound quality than using Roon as the player.
Hi Hugo, this also happens when it is no different sample rate. Roon / Innuos just doesn’t like ‘messing’ with the que in this mode. Hope this still can be solved because SQ is quite a lot better than ‘normal’ streaming from the Innuos.
I’m glad everything is working. But what has happened to the best signal path is the shortest signal path? I’m buying 8” USB cables!
I did have some reservations about separating the core and endpoint. Putting the Roon Core on the Antipodes with all the Audio switches and cables was an improvement in my system. At the end of the day there are trade-off and benefits with everything. It makes sense to limit cable length if you can. I think the quality of the cable is more important than the length but that is also likey system dependent. I have some very short ethernet cables, they are stiff and hard to work with, short cables also brings equipment close together which may not always be good.
I have seen arguments about USB cable length, some tout shorter is better and some say they need to be a minimum length which I think was over a meter. FWIW, I have a very short Curious USB cable I used between an ISO Regen and DAC and I found going even shorter with the little uptone USB adaptor was an improvement over the Curious cable. FWIW using 2 ISO Regens back to back was even better.
Hi Hugo, I just read this on the Darko site:
“Going USB direct into a DAC, how did the Nucleus+ compare to the Sonore Signature Rendu SE ($3295), the latter fed by the Nucleus+ over Ethernet? After all, the Signature Rendu SE combines the low noise USB output of the UltraRendu with a high-quality linear power supply.
Without question, the best sound was achieved with the Nucleus+ streaming to the Signature Rendu SE which in turn was connected to a DAC via USB. Soundstage and overall transparency were enhanced by the Signature Rendu SE with a superior sense of background silence.”
I find this fascinating and don’t understand why adding the Sonore improves SQ. (PS I was torn between the Innuos and the Nucleus but got the innuos in case I didn’t continue with Roon.)
Cheers
H
Because Sonore advertises on the Darko site?
Great call. The innuos with local files playing via ipeng can always be your reference. Keen to hear how you go.
One theory of people like Mojo Audio, that i like for its logic, is that you don’t let any crap in throughout the whole chain. The. you don’t have to try to get rid of it. If you have crap in the system which most of us do (ie a nucleus or sending over a non-optimised network) then you want a cleaning/reclocking device such as the sonore). This device obviously needs to be the very last thing before the DAC.
My biggest issue with Roon’s suggestion of going the network route (core in one room, endpoint at the stereo) is that networks can get very fickle very quickly. And solving those issues is beyond most of us, me especially. This just to get reliable playback. When looking at crap entering via the network components then, for me, solving it can be very expensive (eg beefing up the endpoint to a sonore se or similar). If you do all this it may be better than direct connection but it’s a lot more cost. So for me the first position should be a good server (ie innuos, antipodes or diy) directly connected to a dac. Only then, and with full understanding of your requirements should you look at a networked solution. And this last bit not directed at you personally, just a personal rant at the rabbit hole of networking roon that we’re all pushed towards. 
I must say I’ve stopped visiting the Darko site coz it feels like a pub chat after a few beers!
Hey appreciate your thoughts on this, cheers
To be honest I got so tired of reading usb and Ethernet cables reviews from which it was impossible to conclude who was right, and frankly horrified by the thought of changing cables and trying to work out which might be better as a waste of my time I simply asked myself how much I had budget, spoke to an audiophile shop and chose 2 cables: analysis plus purple usb cable, and the Townsend DCT300 rca analogue cable which I’m told was cryogenically frozen and has an air tube to prevent corruption by a PVE layer and if which of course must be true if that’s what it says on the blurb!!! They do a fine job.
Thus far I’ve refused to upgrade the Ethernet cable which is a cheap standard cable. I note I could spend $2000 on one haha 
Cheers
H
Good server (like Innuos, Melco…) direct to DAC via USB is also the recommendation I got from a person truly hifi obsessed. And it is beautifully simple: two boxes. Just add an amplifier and speakers and that’s it 