[Investigating] "Uh oh, something's not right..." The August Edition

[Snowdog]

Yeah, you said it, bud.

So, another update & now I have a new menu item!

(Yay!)

But, I’m also getting this…

(Boo!)

Everything is working and, as you can see from the brand spanking new menu item, the Roon Server is running, but…

I couldn’t dismiss the on screen window & carry on, so my only option appeared to be a restart, even though, as you can see at the bottom, I am correctly connected to my home network, “Lossless Emporium”.

Also, as the following screenshot shows, CPU usage was virtually nothing:

I discovered that moving the bottom right corner of the Roon window cleared the warning dialog, but nothing would play, so I had to restart.

But here’s the really freaky thing… Roon now restarts in about 5 seconds. I’m used to it taking 15-20 minutes (& even longer until it finishes scanning all the files in).

Did you do something on purpose or did I do something by accident?

[ivan]

Hi, @Snowdog, thank you for your report. Could you, please, provide more details about your setup before the migration to #1310 EA build happened? I mean what was your core. How did you initiate the update?

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Snowdog]

Hi Ivan…

Before I start, I came back to Roon this morning to see this again…

So, my set up is as follows:

Apple MacBook Pro (15" 2017)

Ventura 13.5

3.1 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7

16GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3

Western Digital 18TB Elements Desktop External Hard Drive (Music library storage)

Virgin Media Hub 3 set to modem mode…

ASUS ZenWiFi AX router connected to laptop via cat-6 ethernet cables.

Virgin Media M350 Fibre Broadband

Raspberry Pi 4b with Allo BOSS DAC connected to router via ethernet & to analogue amp via standard phono.

The laptop is where the Roon Core is installed (I haven’t yet been able to get another machine so that I can separate out the server from the app, as per previous advice, which is a shame as it may help to isolate certain issues.)

The update would have been initiated by my seeing a purple box on my Roon screen telling me there’s an update & by my clicking “update all”.

Does that give you enough info?

I should also add that ever since I updated to Ventura, I’ve been having issues with this laptop. Several lengthy sessions with Apple support have left me at a bit of a crossroads as to how I should proceed but the bottom line is that I regularly get a “kernel task” that swamps my Mac & takes up 400-600% of my CPU load for several minutes. (It’s inexplicable, apparently & I’ve been told that the only route forward is to completely re-install the OS & if that doesn’t work, have the motherboard swapped out. Neither of which is an appealing prospect.)

I only mention it in case it’s important info for you.

Please do let me know if you need more info.

[ivan]

Thank you, @Snowdog! Another quick question, am I getting it right that you had RoonServer and Roon running on the same machine before the update?

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Snowdog]

That’s correct, yes.

I’ve had numerous issues with Roon which I’m sure are well documented, but separating Roon from the server was the last best advice & I’ve been unable to try it, mainly because I can’t afford another box to use as the server.

[ivan]

Got it, thanks! Could you, please, try pressing “select a different roon server” button and see what the result is going to be?

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Snowdog]

If I press that button I get this:

[ivan]

Yes, this is a warning which mean that you are going to disconnect from your current Core. Could you, please, try this?

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Snowdog]

Bear with me. I have to “catch it in the act” so to speak.

When I sat down this morning it was doing “the thing” but I had to crack on with some urgent work & while I was doing that, Roon appeared to restart itself. Except that it didn’t get any further than the start-up screen. I left it for ages, but in the end, I gave up & restarted the app. So now I’m back to waiting for it to lose the connection again.

In case it’s important, I will add that, at one point yesterday, I got a “waiting for Roon core” dialog with a purple animated circle that completed & then everything continued as normal. I’ve only ever had that on the app before. In fact, it happens so much on the app that it pretty much renders the app unusable most of the time, but I think that’s all down to the demands placed upon my wi-fi.

Anyway, I shall report back as soon as I’m able to proceed with your next requested step.

PS: I will reiterate that apart from this connection issue, Roon has become like the proverbial “sh*t off a shovel”. It starts up in 10-15 seconds & other functionality, such as when I type a few letters to get me to a point in the library or when I long-click & shift select multiple items, are now instantaneous rather than being very sluggish or sometimes non-existent, so a huge thumbs up for that!

I assume this is because the app & the server have been separated?

[ben (Ben Coburn)]

I assume this is because the app & the server have been separated?

this is correct, and is a big part of our motivation behind making the changes, so it’s nice to see that they’re working out from that perspective.

[Snowdog]

If only I’d realised I could have the server & the app on one machine, I’d have done it months ago!

[Snowdog]

Okay, I tried it & chose “this Mac” & it immediately appeared as normal.

I should also point out that, as a part of my “update to Ventura” issue, as outlined in my second post above, the machine does not carry on as normal when I invoke the screensaver. Something happens. I’m not sure what. It doesn’t go to sleep exactly but it doesn’t behave according to the settings & just let the machine carry on as normal. Also, when I come out of screensaver, it takes 15-20 seconds to “wake up” before I can start to do anything. So it may well be losing the server connection during sleep.

Unless this same thing is happening to other people, it’s probably just my crappy laptop.

I shall report back if it does this outside of screensaver time.

[DaveN]

@Snowdog

So it may well be losing the server connection during sleep.

If you want to make sure that it doesn’t sleep when the screen is off …

System Settings → Displays → Advanced … (this is a button at the bottom)

Then, at the bottom of the popup dialog, make sure that ‘Prevent automatic sleeping when the display is off’ is selected.

[Snowdog]

Thanks. And it is. Trust me, I’ve been through every setting with a fine tooth comb. (And that’s not easy with the dog’s dinner that is the new Ventura system prefs.)

Everything I can find is set to keep the computer running when the screensaver is on. I’ve tried it with & without a password to wake it. It’s set to never sleep & only does so when I use the hot corner.

The only thing I have no control over is the external hard drive which, in Western Digital’s infinite wisdom, goes to sleep after a period of inactivity. I gather there is no way of changing that.

Having said all that, any other suggestions are welcome, but I refer you to my second post upthread. According to the Genius at the Bar in the Apple Store, with regard to the “kernal_task” that is routinely killing my machine for several minutes at a time, I need to completely re-install the system from scratch &, if that doesn’t work, it will need a new motherboard.

There is no guarantee that either of these things will fix it & they will cost me a lot in time & money, which I don’t have, so I’m just having to live with it.

[DaveN]

@Snowdog

The only thing I have no control over is the external hard drive which, in Western Digital’s infinite wisdom, goes to sleep after a period of inactivity. I gather there is no way of changing that.

No, there’s no built-in way of doing it, but it is possible. If you’re interested, I have an AppleScript app that I run at login. DM me if you’d be interested in trying it out.

As for the kernel task issue. I don’t have a solution, but if you google for “kernel_task high cpu usage” (if you haven’t already) you’ll find a number of things you can try that might help to resolve it.

[Snowdog]

I did try that, but I can have another look. Although I can’t imagine there’s anything that the three lengthy calls with Apple support didn’t try already.

It’s all because of Ventura, you know? I just think there are so many small things that are now happening that weren’t before. If I were to completely re-install the system from scratch, I’d go back to Monterey, that’s for sure!

[Snowdog]

Okay, further to the above, it just happened while the machine was not in screensaver mode, so at least I know it’s not that.

I am uploading a ton of stuff to Megasync on this Mac. On one of my other machines, I’m creating fairly lumpy photoshop files for work & they’re syncing over Dropbox. Also, my wife is in the other room working & she’ll be using the wi-fi, too.

Could that have anything to do with it?

[Snowdog]

Okay I’m not sure what’s changed since yesterday, but suddenly I’m having all sorts of problems.

At the moment I’m seeing this:

When I click the start button it simply returns to this screen.

I’ve also been seeing these screens:

I’ve restarted the machine but nothing’s changed. Does the Roon server exist somewhere that I can go & look at it? Maybe switch it on? Where is it? What is it?

According to the menu bar, the Roon server is running.

I have no idea how to troubleshoot this & now I have no music whatsoever.

[Snowdog]

Okay, “turning it off & on again” for about the fourth time seems to have cured it. (Roon, that is. I only restarted the Mac once.)

If I restart the machine, should I expect the Roon server to take some time to get going?

I’m not sure what caused it to go do-lally in the first place. Roon was running but I wasn’t playing music at that point. I just suddenly got the “something’s not right” screen.

This seems to coincide with the “kernel tasks” but I’m not sure what is causing which, if you take my meaning?

See bottom right.

[Snowdog]

and then I suddenly got a drop-out, I went back to Roon & you can see how long the music had been playing at the bottom:

But the music had carried on playing (presumably from the buffer) so I clicked on the “select a different Roon server”, selected my Mac &, lo & behold, it all refreshed & returned to the correct screen without further interruption.

Sadly, this seems to be the new pattern.

I just got the “waiting for server” screen with the momentary dropout & now I have this:

I haven’t reconnected to the server because what’s the point? It’ll just do this again. The music carried on for a while but has now stopped.