Tesla is a publicly traded company and it’s financials are an open book. Their current situation is not conjecture.
Never used Tidal and never will. Quite happy with building my own library in Roon!
I don’t think there are any countries that run at a profit, they just keep going with a manageable dept and cash flow. The way of the world lol
The picture painted by the press is “Tesla is out of cash in 3 quarters and then death”. However, that doesn’t take into account anything but the public financials.
If I painted these “analysts” a picture of Roon’s financials in the last 3 years, we would have been out of business 5 times over. The reality is that we are stronger than ever.
Financials are only a very small indicator of success. Anyone running any growing business knows that money in the bank is one of the least important things for long-term success.
There’s a funny thing about Tesla… their owners are rabid fans. Steve Jobs-era Apple fanboy style fans. It’s because they see beyond the day-to-day and focus on what the experience is and who will take them there.
Tesla will get past the production issues, and when they do, they will still have a product and customer base that will never buy another product because the Tesla is that much better.
Getting cash is easy for a company in that position.
I work in the financial industry and have worked as a consultant or employee at some of the biggest and best known companies in the world. I’m aware of how this works.
In Tesla’s case much more has been taken into account although public financials are certainly enough.
Tidal is in big trouble and Tesla is going to need a cash infusion plus they need to fix their issues with turning out enough vehicles and laying off 1200+ employees in the plant didn’t help.
Here is an article on the topic, from the Economist: https://www.economist.com/news/business/21730446-five-outliers-chesapeake-energy-netflix-nextera-energy-tesla-and-uber-have-collectively
Of course, you could argue that they too know nothing about managing large corporations…
Out of curiosity, what makes you think Tidal is a growing business? MQA?
I’d rather bet on Tesla and Uber surviving over the Economist
You could argue that but you would be wrong especially if you look at who writes these articles.
Tidal is not a growing business, they are stagnant which is part of the problem. I like MQA myself but I doubt it has an impact on subscriptions.
Then I’ve probably provided data and analysis tools to you in the past.
The financial industry is good at normal things… they suck when it comes to predicting Apples, Googles, and Facebooks.
Well in your case you are betting on neither, but Tidal… You must have some insights that we don’t… I hope you do.
So Tidal just came out with an Apple TV app. Didn’t see that one coming. It works OK but is pretty slow. I tried it on a 4K Apple TV attached to a Samsung JS9000 with Kef LS50W speakers attached to the TV by optical… It sounds good. The black background is ugly.
I normally play Tidal via Roon direct connect to my Kef LS50W speakers which is just a really great combination.
I don’t know about publicly traded companies, but in the context of privately held businesses, the financials are never the last word. Even in publicly traded companies, though, contractual and other investment-like relationships can remain undisclosed, no? Anyway, it makes no sense to worry about Tidal. There’s nothing you can do to ease the pain when/if it happens.
Personally, I would rather see the entire streaming business die off for ever, but I just don’t think financials are dispositive. Look at all the due diligence that goes on in a merger/acquisition situation. Financials are just a part of that. Sometimes they are a big part, but sometimes they are very small, even when they show a doomed business.
My example was to show that the wolf-crying press is not a reason to get all worked up in a fuss.
yes, and any deals in progress are always undisclosed unless there is a reason for them to not be (regulations, marketing, etc…)
Your post is much better stated that mine. Thanks!
I think the point is that as long as Roon only relies on Tidal it is at a sticky wicket.
Granted some people have vast personal libraries but I have seen lots of people abandon their libraries just because streaming is easier and I would bet most Roon users use Tidal a great deal.
I think once you take away Tidal, Roon would start to become more like an alternative to JRiver.
I am certainly not getting worked up over it as I do not have a tidal subscription…and the reason I do not has nothing to do with its financial woes.
Streaming services are not going to go away, simply because the alternative is worse: illegal streaming. The model may certainly change, but when?
Until then, can Tidal continue to support heavy losses? I personally doubt it. What are its assets? A few exclusive contracts, mqa? How significant is that? Honestly I do not see where Tidal is heading.
There is simply no comparison between Tidal and an Uber or Tesla, which offer unique products and services, and do have a “vision” that Tidal sorely lacks.
I sure hope there is a plan B!!!
ROON and Tidal integration has opened up a world to my listening habits. Created some new ones and broken some old ones. Sure I still buy music to build a “real” library, but I can’t see continuing with ROON without that bottomless well of information and exploration. I’ve been a yearly subscriber for about 2 years now, this scenario of Tidal disappearing is the main reason I didn’t lifetime my membership.
It would be great to see the “Services” section in ROON have a few more players in it. But will anyone step up to fill the gap of high resolution streaming?
Again. I hope the boys have a plan B.
Firstly, I’d like to thank @danny for contributing to this thread. You wouldn’t normally see any COO doing this.
My personal position is like this…I’ve just paid for another year of Roon Membership because it’s so bloody good. I have a stagnant personal library of 3000 albums and a daily growing Tidal library of around 1800 albums with 1600 of these being Tidal Masters. If the press reports are true and accurate, which I doubt and Tidal becomes no more, then I would seriously have to consider any future renewal of my membership. I’m sure a lot of other Roon members would also consider their membership positions if this happened. Let’s all keep are fingers crossed for good news!
This article is seriously flawed. They take the revenue numbers for 2016 and assume they are the same for 2017, even though they don’t know the 2017 subscriber numbers or costs. I doubt that Sprint spent 200 million on Tidal in 2016 to watch it go under 18 months later. Even if Sprint and the other investors decided to not put up more money, I think Tidal could probably bring in new investors or could be sold.
If Tidal closes shop and Roon has no alternative streaming service integrated, my Roon subscription will not make any sense anymore. I do not need indexing and cross-referencing on my own purchases - I know them already!
@danny: Your distracting argumentation seems to me head in the sand policy.
Maybe we’ll be lucky and Tidal finds another buyer, at least the annoying Jay-Z and colleagues plugging will stop.