I'm having trouble with my DAC, speakers, streamer, etc.
What best describes the issue with your audio device?
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I am using a Focusrite Clarett+ 4Pre primarily for audio recording but also run Roon from the same computer. This DAC takes 5-6 seconds to change sample rate and lock its internal clock. Unfortunately this sequence also happens even when asked to "switch sample rate" to a rate that it is already locked on.
I have Roon setup for Exclusive mode for this interface to ensure that the correct sample rate is set to match the source material. Each time I "press play", Roon will set the sample rate in the DAC even if the DAC is already in the correct sample rate. Thus, there is a 5-6 second delay before hearing audio every time I start playback.
I do have a tech support request with Focusrite on this issue. There is nothing to be done about the 5-6 second time to re-lock on to the desired sample rate. I am hoping they will update the firmware to not change the sample rate if already locked on the requested rate.
As another avenue for resolution, could Roon also be changed to determine the existing sample rate of the DAC, and not request a sample rate change if the DAC is already in the desired state?
I am using a Mac and there are no drivers to install for that platform. I do have the most current Control application for configuring and monitoring the various channels.
Thanks for reaching out. I would also be curious to see if the Roon logs contain any further clues on this, can you let us know the exact local time + date + track when you next observe this issue? We can enable diagnostics mode afterward.
While you check with Focusrite on this, one temporary workaround you can use is to upsample everything in Roon to this same sample rate using MUSE:
Thanks for getting back to me. Here is some more information for you.
My previous DAC for the home studio was a Focusrite Scarlet Solo (4th Gen) which is their newest hardware. It also uses USB and the sample rate switching on it is instantaneous from a human perception point of view. I upgraded to their Clarett+ unit to gain more inputs, outputs, SPDIF and MIDI. The Clarett+ has internal relays to switch out different chipsets based on the requested sample rate. Hence the slow time to switch. You can hear the relays clicking when this happens. I have asked them if they could update the firmware to ignore a switching request if already locked into the desired rate. I don’t have high hopes that will happen. We’ll see.
There are scenarios where I can 100% reproduce this issue, and it doesn’t matter what time/date or track I am trying to play. However there are specific instances where this switching DOES NOT occur. Here are some repro cases of both failure and success.
The following repro cases assume one starts with the first one and proceeds in order to subsequent cases.
Repro 1-A (Fail):
Choose a track that I have in my local library from a ripped CD and play it. That implies a 16 bit 44.1 kHz rate.
The DAC takes 5-6 seconds to lock into the bit depth and sample rate. Meanwhile I miss hearing those initial seconds from the track.
Repro 1-B (Pass):
While the track is playing from Repro 1-A, I press the Pause button, then press Play again.
This time there is no switching and playback occurs immediately with no issue (no sample rate switch).
Repro 1-C (Pass):
While the track is playing from Repro 1-A, I press the Previous Track button to return to beginning of track.
Playback occurs at begging of the track with no delay (no sample rate switch).
Repro 1-D (Fail):
While the track is playing from Repro 1-A, I press Pause, then press Previous track to return to beginning, then press Play again.
The DAC takes 5-6 seconds to switch sample rate and lock.
Repro 2 (Fail):
While track is playing from Repro 1-A, I locate another local track in my library with the same sample rate.
Play track which overrides the currently playing track.
The DAC takes 5-6 seconds to switch sample rate and lock.
Repro 3 (Fail):
While track is playing from Repro 1-A, I locate another track in my library with a different sample rate. For example something I purchased from HDTracks.com. In my case a track at 24 bit 96 kHz sample rate.
Play track which overrides the currently playing track.
The DAC takes 5-6 seconds to switch sample rate and lock.
Repo 4 (Fail):
Repeat Repro cases 1-A through 1-D except play something streaming from Tidal. The Pass/Fail instances will be identical to playing a track local to my library.
Repro 5 (Pass):
While playing a track from Tidal, repeat Repro 2 by locating another Tidal track with the same sample rate.
Play track which overrides the currently playing track.
There is no sample rate switch and playback happens as soon as streaming data arrives.
Right now my workaround is to change the Resync Delay in Device Setup to 5000ms. It makes for a long pause but I hear all the music and there is no modification of original data (no up or down sampling).
I tried to attach the log file, but couldn’t figure out how. I clicked the Upload button but the log file was “greyed out”.
I’m also using a Clarett+ 4Pre on an M3 Mac. I’ve found this so annoying that I’ve switched to assigning Roon to system output and assigned the Clarett+ as the system’s audio output device. Far from good!
So annoying in fact that I’m considering another DAC + headphone amp + pre amp. Of course that will just frustrate me more when I want to play with Logic Pro, RipXDAW, etc
On the surface it’s easy to assume this is due to some lazy coding on Roon’s part and it does appear that way to me … surely the Mac audio device settings are readable as well as assignable.
For now though I’m just fighting one fire at a time … currently trying to figure out why both my old Sonos Connect and new Sonos Port + digital to optical converter will no longer talk to my Devialet Phantoms. Its looking like the possible answer is to add a Devialet Arch ($969AUD) Another Sonos fiasco!
@Kev_AtNoosa I have used and continue to use many different DACs. All of them change sample rate so quickly that this issue is not present with them. I don’t think there is “lazy coding” at work here with Roon. Since the Clarett+ is marketed to and used by people recording music, I am not surprised that this problem has not come up before.
I have received responses from Focusrite on this problem. They indicate that the issue could not be resolved in the firmware of the Clarett+. That it is a direct action taken based on a request that Roon makes to the Mac core audio driver which in turn issues a command to the DAC. The correct solution should come from Roon to not “switch” sample rates when not needed.
@noris Do you any more insight on this and could Roon be changed to only request a sample rate change when needed?
True enough … I haven’t had the issue with other audio interfaces or DACs. I fear the settings change fired at the Clarett+ has a bigger impact as a config change has the potential to also flip hardware settings.
Thank you for reporting this issue. This is something we can reproduce internally and will investigate further with development. As far as we can tell, it doesn’t reproduce on XMOS-based or UAD interfaces, and is specific to the Focusrite/Roon interaction with Mac’s coreaudio.
We don’t broadly test Roon with devices that have A/D converters, but not out of narrow-mindedness. Many Roon users who create or work in music will insert Roon into their reference chain for mixing, mastering, and post-production. However, our streaming service partners have justifiable concerns about us supporting use cases that would enable (potentially illegal) re-routing of copyrighted material from their platforms into a DAW for livestream or recording using Roon. Moreover, we’ve tailored our handling of sample rates for cases that have zero audio input. Focusrite’s firmware is built to handle an I/O matrix in coordination with their console software, Control. As something that changes frequently in the former use case and rarely in the latter, sample rate will be the flashpoint for the difference in product design.
This is the correct answer if Roon were a DAW targeting a single sample rate for a session. But Roon sending sample rate information to coreaudio with each track is a non-negotiable necessity, from my understanding.
Do you see a conflict between the Signal Path in Roon, Audio Midi Setup, and the Focusrite Control app? Do you have a DAW open when you encounter this, and if so, what sample rate do you have set?
@Connor In my case I do not have my DAW running the same time as Roon. I exclusively run one or the other but never both simultaneously. I almost never run the Audio Midi Setup but do on occasion run Focusrite’s Control software. As a test, I ran both at the same time as Roon. I could see the sample rate change in Control happen a couple of seconds before seeing it in Audio Midi Setup, then finally a “lock” indicator in Control and on the DAC itself (via LED). No conflict, just very high latency.
The time to switch is unfortunately inherent in the Clarett+. Would be very cool if Roon could compare the existing DAC sample rate with the track and only change if not equal. Not sure if you have DAC specific code in Roon. If so, then this could be something that would only apply to Clarett+. As a software engineer myself I know that kind of thing can be abhorrent.
Perhaps the easy way around this, while a fix is developed could be to have Roon resample all music to a set sample rate, say 192khz, or 96khz - up to the OP. Arguably your not going to hear any difference…
I personally run a Motu MK5 UL [Connected to Ubuntu/Linux], and although the Motu does take 4 seconds to lock on sample rate changes, all Roon functions work as intended and the DAC doesn’t need to relock as a result of transport control execution.
Out of interest, have you tried the Focusrite DAC on a Windows [using its driver] or Linux OS machine [I.e. connect the DAC to a Ubuntu or Ropieee compute]? Do you observe the same issues?
I personally use my Motu MK5 UL interface in front of an active JBL M2 setup [Feeding a number of class D amps], running a multiway active setup. At the time of purchase, I remember doing considerable research to ensure the operation of the DAC would mimic consumer level gear under Roon… I spoke to a number of Focusrite owners, and Motu owners trying to understand limitations/issues.
For what its worth, I have had excellent success with Motu and RME, although some curly quirks still exist. The most recent Ubuntu Linux OS’s have excellent USB operation and support for multichannel operation for what its worth. I suspect Windows might provide a better experience also.
In the end I ended up removing DSP FIR crossover duties from Roon into CamillaDSP [receiving a loopback from Roon] because Roon’s MUSE DSP wasn’t perfectly reliable, and reported issues were simply ignored [I.e. Crosspoint ‘pop’ issues, Procedural programming issues]. Hopefully Roon relooks at these tickets with Harman onboard.
Another Sonos fiasco!