I've fallen a little out of love with the Roon forum šŸ’”

Therein lies the rub. They know it, but theyā€™ve never tried it when pressed. Itā€™s a matter of whatā€™s good enough to some not being good enough to others. There is just as much science based information out there as to why IT DOES make an audible difference, but that science is derided while their lack of first hand experience in trying said comparison is put forth as fact, put forth simply to justify a viewpoint without understanding. In the real world, science is based on experimentation and when you canā€™t explain the results of your experiments i.e. why improvements on the digital source have an impact on the quality of the sound, then you need to further test and potentially change your viewpoint if continued testing and experimentation results goes against your held beliefs. But theyā€™re not here for that. :slight_smile:

Itā€™s also often out of context because replacing a power supply on a network switch when youā€™ve got a $300 dollar DAC and your entire chain is well south of $2k, youā€™re more than likely not going to hear the most impact and frankly itā€™s not the best use of your upgrade money in the first place. There are things that you do and gain value from doing WAY further along in the journey and perhaps itā€™s why you get these repetitive argumentative threads. Everyone has their perspective while only one side is unwilling to admit that other perspectives can also exist and perhaps be right.

Believe me, no one starts out saying that a $1500 USB cable will make as a purchase, but for some people at some point in their journey if theyā€™ve gotten that far, it does make a lot of sense. No one should be derided for it but donā€™t even dare suggest it in a thread here.

The entire hobby is about power, and we se companies separate their power supplies into a separate chassis, but you constantly see comments here about it being pointless to upgrade the power supply to a DAC because bits are bits without having any real understanding of the topic theyā€™re talking about.

Iā€™d counter that there is just as much damage done to someone starting out in the hobby by the ASR crowd saying that all DACS sound the same and you never need anything more than a Topping or SMSL component (that they provide shortlinks to purchase) because to do otherwise is just throwing your money away. When the reality is that the implementation on these inexpensive (but very good sounding relative to their price) DACs is because their implementation is pretty much the same.

Sometimes it does take a $50k investment to develop a chain that is extremely capable, and it does take years of being in the hobby listening to be able to learn what to listen for. To be able to say that ABX instant switch testing isnā€™t the optimal way to hear differences because itā€™s not how our senses work. In my journey, Iā€™ve addressed room treatment, Iā€™ve addressed vibration and isolation in components, Iā€™ve addressed power cabling and conditioning Iā€™ve addressed synergy and when I say I hear a profound difference in the continued improvements to the digital source itā€™s because I hear it, donā€™t have to prove it to anyone. It doesnā€™t take a lot of money to get a decent DDC and a power supply. Anyone that is open and curious abut furthering their system should know that there are meaningful improvements on the table to be had, regardless of what lacking good faith science crowd says about things theyā€™ve never tried.

The point is that 9 times out of 10 itā€™s best to leave a comment unreplied to and move on.

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You mean, there is objective evidence that bit-perfect digital transports sound differently when all else is the same? I would love to see that.

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My statement was about the Roon team. The Roon team has never tried a $10k server? Where did they come from again? Iā€™d say thereā€™s a pretty good chance the Roon team has had their hands on a lot of hardware at all levels.

And after they have, what they recommend is a competent machine at the server end, a wired network in the middle, and a streamer at the far end. And if there is any, any, theoretical chance of any EMF traveling from the server to the streamer, you can eliminate that with a fiber optic network, which is just a fraction of the cost of a $10k server.

There it isā€¦you just have to wait for it. My dollars make me right.

Respectfully disagree here - there are plenty of people that absolutely swear by their audiophile network switches and $10k servers, and donā€™t allow for any point of view as to configurations that make those items relatively meaningless in the scheme of sound quality. Even get angry when presented with those opinions.

This isnā€™t what Iā€™m talking about and I donā€™t see that many people denying that different DACs have different influence on sound. Albeit I have seen some convincing engineers and others say that switching supplies have caught up with LPS but I think thatā€™s a case by case question.

Certainly, it is silly to upgrade the power supply on a network switch or on a server that isnā€™t doubling as a streamer.

Well, I wouldnā€™t agree with that as I have 3 DACs well north of that price range but I think actually that is a good place to start. Need to learn first. If you start off believing you need a $10k server to even get in the game, thatā€™s far more damaging.

And there are plenty of people with that level of gear and that amount of experience that know that certain things, especially in the digital realm, are not amenable to analog audio logic.

/i

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Mods, itā€™s time.

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This type of behaviour and some more reasons is why i fellā€¦ :zipper_mouth_face:

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Itā€™s primarily a ā€œsupport forumā€ - thereā€™s no need to hang out here if Roon is working for you. Something Iā€™ve learnt and come to terms with myself too. And the longer youā€™re here, the more you realise the same themes just keep going round and round, lol.

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I realized you are right about this, because a very long thread was just closed because I gave personal taste about some type of speaker sound-print but this has nothing to so with the software.
Still trying to find out how to unsubscribe from the forum though, so I wont be tempted to join such discussions about equipment. Any suggestions?

That is patently untrue!
It was closed as it had run itā€™s course many times over and not even remotely close to being closed due to your contributions.
Please refrain from making statements that are wholly inaccurate and misleading as stated facts.
Than you for your cooperation.

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Clearly that was not the reason

You can mute any thread

or individual users

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What does that even mean? Whoā€™s going to decide that a ā€˜thread has run its courseā€™? Have there been serious violations of the community guidelines?

We might think about particular threads whatever we may, but as long as there are other members who debate a topic and donā€™t seriously violate community guidelines, why do those threads get shut down?

To me this sounds as if there were some tacit and unwritten forum rules, or if itā€™s not this, as if arbitrary moderation power was being wieldedā€¦

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In this case I had the impression after exchanging some heated comments, all sides have returned to a fruitful discussion and some progress as well as partial agreement on technical facts were just in the making.

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In addition to muting a thread or user as suggested by (@)Suedkiez, you can also mute entire categories or subcategories:

Under you profile, select Prefence > + Tracking
Select one or more (sub)categories in the ā€œMutedā€ field

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There are threads I mute all the time, I must have muted this particular thread in question as Iā€™ve no idea what is being discussed :slight_smile:

Iā€™ve come to the realization, just like has been said above, that this forum really can be very toxic. I used to enjoy reading things here and getting ideas about system building and other cool stuff to do with Roon as a central part of my system. Has the community in general really gone down hill or is it me? I really do hope that an upcoming change to the RoonLabs business model addresses the support perspective. I have given up here as I have yet to receive any kind of positive outcome.

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Sounds to me as if we need some moderators to moderate the moderatorsā€¦ :upside_down_face:

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The world is getting more and more toxic, so it will trickle down to everything Iā€™m afraid.

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Look, the moderators have to read all that stuff to moderate, and the posts were becoming incredibly prolix (without, IMO, much of anything new in terms of argumentation). Seems to me perfectly reasonable for a moderator to say, OK, enough, I canā€™t take this any more!

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Well, I disagree, and Iā€™ll let it stand at that.

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At which point they should probably hand off to someone else and/or take a break.

Any forum can be happy if they find enough volunteer mods who are trustworthy, reliable, and willing to put in the time. The mods here do a great job.

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