KEF LS60 - sub pairings

You can’t be worse at set-up than I am, and the apps (both KEF’s and SVS’s) and especially SVS’s tech support (which looks up optimized settings for KEF products) will get you there. Good luck!

Did you need to shuffle the Micros around the room to find the best location for them (audibly) or did they just go where they’d have the least visual impact? “Are they fussy about room placement?” would be another way of phrasing it I suppose.

I would be very interested to hear more about your experience with the subs… I have a pair of LS60’s which I’ve had since they launched here in the UK. I don’t have a sub as I figured the 60’s have 4 KC62’s (sort of) built in. However, as we all know, hifi is a creeping disease and now I’m wondering!! :slight_smile:

How would you say the sound compares with and without the subs? Does it sound like it’s freeing up the midrange any?

Thoughts welcome. Thanks.

Please take this all with a grain of salt - I’m far from a seasoned audiophile - but yes, I think the midrange of the LS60s is not fighting with the bass for attention. You can’t really nullify the bass function on the LS60s, but the subs allow you to manage the bass separately. And I can tell you that the midrange absolutely sings!

I could probably do without the subs, given the build of the LS60s, but once you turn on the Micros, you feel a difference - more of a depth of sound, if that makes sense.

My room is such that I couldn’t move the second Micro to a different location. So the subs are each closer to the wall than the respective speakers they’re connected to.

Perhaps there’s a better location I could have found but, to your question, the Micros seem to deliver their benefit even in a less strategic placement. The two Micros don’t spread the focus of the bass as much as they free the bass from a specific identifiable location. The impact is a lot like the “one-source” technology of the LS60s - the bass doesn’t appear to come from any one place.

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Thanks for the reply… I am hovering over the ‘buy’ button constantly! :slight_smile:

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Do it. You’re going to get there eventually.

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This is what dual subs accomplish vs a single. It is double the price but easier to setup as so there is not a bad seat in the room even at lower volumes.

–MD

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It’s like you know me! :slight_smile:

I have to say I am slightly more tempted by the KC62 given that it integrates into the Connect app. So I am doing a lot of reading around the Micro and the KEF.

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I now own a KC62. Two minutes of research usually leads to an expensive purchase!

The difference is subtle, but once heard, you don’t want to go back. I would say I am feeling more weight/gravitas rather than hearing bass notes I hadn’t heard on the already competent LS60’s. Amusing to be driving 10 bass drivers in total.

High-pass frequency set to 65Hz
Sub out low-pass set to 47.5Hz

These are automatically assigned by the 60’s - and can be changed.

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Can you or anyone educate me on what purpose the high-pass filter serves? If the crossover only sends frequencies below a set level to the sub, what’s left for a high-pass filter to do?

My limited understanding is that to create a smooth response, you don’t want high pass and low pass set at the same frequencies. Because it’s not a cliff edge/brick wall, you need a gap between the two so that they gently roll into each other. Not sure if that makes sense! :slight_smile:

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The LS60 low frequency response is still only 6dB down at 26Hz, according to KEF’s specification, so a high pass filter is needed provide bass roll-off from the LS60 speakers, otherwise they would be adding to the subwoofer output and potentially a smooth response would not be obtained.

Secondly if the low-pass and high-pass filter are based on Linkwitz-Riley designs, they will both have −6 dB gain at their design cut-off frequencies. This means that, upon summing the low-pass and high-pass outputs, the gain at the crossover frequency will be 0 dB, i.e. a flat response through the crossover region.

This also means that the -3db points will be slightly apart, as in the 65Hz High-pass and 47.5Hz low-pass automatically assigned for the LS60 Wireless and KC62.

image

This is explained in more detail in this Wikipedia article:

Would this pertain to the type of amp & subwoofer being used?

Some amps have a sub out and a RCA sub input on the subwoofer. Then this Linkwitz-Riley filter would then seem to apply.

However for some subs they are connected via the speaker out of the Amp and then to the speaker input of the sub and from the speaker output of the sub to the speaker. In this scenario the sub would filter out the low and pass the high onto the speaker.

–MD

If we take the case of the LS60/KC62 combination, KEF is fully aware of the frequency responses of both products, and can therefore tailor the high-pass and low-pass filters accordingly.

In the second case you mention, the subwoofer designer is generally unlikely to know what speaker the high-pass crossover filter built into the subwoofer is being designed for, so will incorporate a generalised high-pass filter with variable controls, so that the user can adjust to achieve the best-sounding result.

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BTW if you are interested in a more detailed description of crossover design, this might help:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140227064203/http://www.rane.com/note160.html

Yeah for reference, paired with LSX II’s the KC62 in the app defaults to the following:

High Pass Frequency: 67.5 Hz
Sub out low-pass frequency: 47.5 Hz
Sub Gain: -1 dB

Personally I changed that to:

High Pass Frequency: 70 Hz
Sub out low-pass frequency: 55 Hz
Sub Gain: -1 dB

So my personal setting has a gap of only 15Hz between the low pass and high pass, while the defaults have a 20Hz gap. I know this probably means a bit of a bump somewhere in the curve, but the KC62 is under my desk and my office is a weird room so this is what sounds “better” to me. Might be wrong to others and I might experiment some more.

The KC62 was a lot of money (to me lol) but you have LS60’s so I assume there’s some budget. It’s a bit of freak of nature performance wise and it’s form factor is kind of beautiful.

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You might find it useful to check the frequency response, I checked my system a while ago using REW and a UMIK and was pleasantly surprised.

BTW I’d really like to have an LS60, my system is a lot more modest than that. I’ve downloaded the KEF white papers for LS50 Wireless ii, LS60 Wireless, KC62…