Large portion of History missing and unexpected file additions on Mac Mini M1 (ref#MT5547)

Hi! What’s not quite right with Roon?

· None of the above quite fits

None of the above quite fits

· None of these quite match

Tell us what's going on

· Out of the blue >25% of the History overview is gone. The count is down from 91K files played to 70K. I wonder where they went, and why. Also some Qobuzfiles are added that I never played. And yes, I disabled Roon Radio on my endpoints.

And sometimes Roon starts adding >100K files to my library, that are already in there. When it's finally done, these files are not marked as recently added but carry the date stamp from when I orginally added them. Except from say 10 albums or so, that are displayed as newly added, yet are in my library since day 1. This phenomenon occured a few months back for the first time. The disappearance of a large part of the History dates form a few days back. So perhaps these are not related, I don't know.

Roon Servers runs on a Mac Mini M1 that is hardwired with the endpoints and the NAS that holds the library, through managed switches from Ubiquity. All firmware (Mac, NAS, endpoints, networking devices) is up to date. All HDDs and SSDs are healthy.

Tell us about your home network

· Router - FritzBox, switches are managed ubiquity, no VPN, everything hardwired

Hi @Johannes,

Thank you for your post.

Can you please verify if you have Show Hidden Tracks and Albums toggled on in Settings → General?

Our diagnostic servers show that your RoonServer machine has at least eight watched folder locations, and based on the naming, these appear to correlate to different annual snapshots of your music library.

Please also please share a screenshot of your Watched Folders in Roon Settings → Storage.

How have you structured your storage folders holding the library on the NAS? Roon’s indexing is flexible but it generally expects to find local content to be stored roughly in an Artist/Album/Track topology.

We’ll watch for your reply. Thanks!

Hi,
Show Hidden Tracks and Albums is toggled on.
I attached a screenshot of the Watched Folders. They are organised on a year-to-year basis. The exception is the “Artists”-folder. That contains the Sooloos-library that I migrated in 2018.
Storage folders are for the most part structured as you described and Roon expects.

A fairly recent example of a recent unexpected addition to the library: according to Roon’s History I played Angèle’s “A Little More” on Qobuz around 9 hours ago. But I didn’t. I checked the playlists of all endpoints and none of them show this particular file.

Hi @Johannes,

Thank you for the screenshot — that’s a helpful concrete example.

Unfortunately, the log bundle you shared covers June 12–16 only, so the phantom play of Angèle’s “A Little More” on June 11 falls outside the captured window. We’re not able to trace that specific event in the available data.

If this happens again, please update us here as soon as you notice it — ideally within an hour or two of the unexpected entry appearing in History. The closer we are to the event, the better our chances of pinpointing what triggered it.

When you report it, it would also help to note:

  • Which endpoint/zone was listed in the History entry (if shown)
  • Roughly what time it appeared
  • Whether any Roon client was open on a phone or tablet at that moment

We’ll keep this ticket open and watch for your follow-up. Thanks for your patience.

Hi,

At 09.50 hours local time History showed Oliver Davis: Air, track “Mirror” on Qobuz being played “2 hours ago”. But is a phantom play. I checked the playlists of all endpoints, none showed this file.

If a Roon client was open at the time of play, it might have been on an iPhone 15 with the latest iOS. But that’s not for sure. The file doesn’t show on the History of the iPhone either.

BTW: the complete History is back. Don’t know why. The only event I can tie it to is a restart of network, storgae, endpoints etc. due to a power outage.

Hello @Johannes

Would you kindly clarify whether you have played this track outside of the Roon app? For example, on the Qobyz website or native app?

Nope, I chose nor played this track on Qobuz’s website or in the app…

Hey @Johannes,

Thanks for the follow-up! Unfortunately, the diagnostic bundle we snapped only covers about 3.5 hours across all 19 files, which isn’t normal.

That said, there is zero playback or history-write activity in it unfortunately. But the logs did catch the mass re-import problem live, and the cause is fairly clear.

The mass re-add is happening continuously, not as a one-off. Across the whole window there are 43,038 “importing file” events, and every one is from a single storage location: the \Artists folder, the migrated 2018 Sooloos library. Imports run nonstop at ~2,000 per 10 minutes from the first timestamp to the last and never finish.

Each import is paired with undeleting deleted track with the same file key (43,025 of them). Roon is treating the entire Sooloos folder as deleted, then rediscovering each file and undeleting/re-importing it. Because it’s an undelete of the same file key, the tracks keep their original date-added stamp, exactly the behaviour youdescribed (“not marked as recently added… carry the date stamp from when I originally added them”).

We’re seeing repeated network mount read failures from it. There are reoccuringIoFailure “possibly corrupt file” warnings recurring throughout the window. On a healthy local disk you don’t see repeated IoFailures, this points to the NAS share dropping or returning intermittent I/O errors, which is the kind of thing that makes Roon lose track of files (file keys go missing → marked deleted → reappear → undeleted).

I think it would make the most sense to see if you’re able to grab a set of manual Roon Server logs shortly after you experience the issue. If you could, please reproduce the phantom play, and then please use the directions found here and send over a set of Roon Server logs to our File Uploader? Once logs have been uploaded, please let us know so that we can check the server for your files, thanks!

Some additional questions for you as well:

  • Does the NAS holding your Artists folder ever sleep, changes share casing, or renumbers volumes?
  • Check the NAS-side logs/SMART for that volume around the IoFailure timestamps.
  • Test whether disabling that one watched folder stops the churn (the other year-based folders show none of this behaviour).
Thank you!

Hi @benjamin,

Thanks for your detailed reply.Let me gather data and "ll get back to you in a few days.

Cheers!

Sounds good @Johannes we’ll be monitoring for your reply :+1:

Hello,

I’ve got the same problem, tracks showing up which has never been played on any endpoint. In my case all tidal files. I’ve checked on the Tidal app, these files aren’t played there either.

It seems to do this after playing a radio station, but I’m not sure. @vadim : would you like me to open up a new post under support?

Hi,

The easy answers first:

  • the NAS does sleep, does not change share casing and does not renumber volumes
  • All 4 HDD’s are reported healthy. I also benchmarked them: no anomalies
  • this weekend I’ll disable that watched folder, see what happens.(or does not happen)

Re: the RoonServer logs: RoonServer keeps a history of 2 days and produces 21 logfiles in this period.Most of them are generated at night.I checked some of them for IoFailure. None of those logs I checked (and I did not check them all!) show a mass mentioning of IoFailure.

Today I noticed a phantomplay of 2Qobuz-files 4 days ago, but now I cannot relate a log to that event.
Is there a way to prevent Roon to throw away logfiles that are older than 2 days?

Hello @Johannes,

Thank you for the update and for checking the drives - good to hear they are healthy.

Unfortunately there is no way to extend Roon’s log retention beyond the current 2-day window. If you notice a phantom play or unexpected file addition, the best approach is to report it to us immediately while the relevant logs are still available - ideally within a few hours of the event.

Please keep an eye on your library and let us know right away if the issue repeats. We will be ready to pull the diagnostics while they are still fresh.

In Roon’s History I see 4 phantom plays, all Qobuzfiles. Three of them “A dag ago”. One “7 Hours ago”. I selected none of them, they do not appear on the playlists of any roon endpoint.
It being a sunday, I don’t know if you read this in time to be able to pull the diagnostics. Therefore I’ll save the roonserver logs (there is no log 7 or 8 hours old, though). Let me know if you need them.

8 hours ago: phantom play of “Cavalleria rusticana” by Staatskapelle Berlin.It shows up in History, but didn’t play on any endpoint.

Hey @Johannes,

Thanks for the timestamp. We looked for the “Cavalleria rusticana” play (Staatskapelle Berlin) around July 5 at roughly 23:00 your local time, but that moment again falls outside the logs we currently have. The server keeps only a rolling window of recent activity, and by the time the set was captured, the July 5 window had already rolled off. So we can’t trace that specific entry directly.

That short window is itself worth explaining, because it points back at the root cause. RoonServer doesn’t keep logs for a fixed number of days; it keeps a fixed number of files that roll over as they fill up. You spotted this yourself when you noted 21 logfiles being produced in the period, most generated overnight. That volume is the tell: your server is writing an unusually large amount to its logs, which burns through the whole retention buffer in about two days. What’s filling them is the storage instability we identified earlier, hundreds of “IoFailure” warnings and the repeated delete-then-undelete re-import cycles on your NAS library. In other words, the logs are short because of the underlying issue, not independently of it. As the storage churn settles, the logs will naturally cover a longer span again.

Combined with the History count swinging (dropping tens of thousands of entries, then returning), this points away from a playback problem and toward the same root cause behind the mass re-additions: your Roon library index being disrupted and rebuilt when the NAS share becomes momentarily unavailable. We can actually see one of these mount interruptions in the recent logs, where your music volume dropped and then came back, immediately followed by a burst of file re-reads and errors. When file references are lost and then resurrected like that, stale or mis-associated play records can resurface in History with a fresh “X hours ago” timestamp, which is what a phantom play could look like from your side.

Importantly, this is a share-availability problem, not a disk-health one. Your drive benchmarks being clean is fully consistent with what we’re seeing; the issue is the NAS share dropping off the network briefly, not the disks themselves. A couple of things worth checking on the NAS side:

  • Whether that specific volume, or the NAS, has any sleep, hibernation, or power-saving setting that lets it spin down or drop its SMB connection when idle.
  • The NAS's own system log around the times these happen, looking for SMB session resets, the volume going offline, or the network link dropping.
And the one thing that will let us catch a phantom in the act: the next time one appears, please export and upload your own manual Roon Server logs within an hour or two of noticing it. Because of the short retention we just described, that quick turnaround is the only way the relevant moment will still be in the logs when they reach us. If you can, note the exact local time you spot it, too.

Please use the directions found here and send over a set of Roon Server logs to our File Uploader

Thanks again for your patience working through this with us. :+1:

Hi @benjamin ,

Many thanks for your detailed reply.

FYI:
The NAS contains 4 HDDs, 8 Tb each, in one pool and volume.
To preserve power and HHDs they go to sleep after 20 min idling.
In the NAS system logs I cannot find any SMB session resets, volume going off line, nor network link dropping that I can relate to the time stamp of phantom plays, history count swings or re-adding the content of the share of the former Sooloos library.

I’ll be on the look out for a phantom play or any of the other strange events - I’ll need a bit of luck to catch one timely…

Hey @Johannes,

Thanks, this is really helpful, and I think you just handed us the answer.

To preserve power and HDDs they go to sleep after 20 min idling.
That's almost certainly the mechanism behind everything we've been chasing. When the pool spins down after 20 minutes idle, the next time Roon Server reaches for a file the share isn't instantly there. The volume has to wake and re-establish, and in that brief gap Roon sees file keys go missing, marks them deleted, then rediscovers and undeletes them once the disks are back. That's the delete/undelete re-import cycle on the Sooloos \Artists folder, the History count swinging by tens of thousands and returning, and the phantom-play timestamps all coming from the same source.

It also explains the clean NAS logs. A scheduled power-saving spin-down is expected behavior from the NAS’s point of view, so it won’t record an “SMB session reset” or “volume offline” event, from its side nothing went wrong. But Roon, mid-read, experiences it as the share briefly dropping. So the absence of errors in the NAS log is consistent with this, not evidence against it.

Two things to try, in order:

  • Disable disk sleep / hibernation / spin-down on that volume (and any global HDD power-saving setting) so the pool stays spun up and the share is always immediately available. This is the single most likely fix, I'd let it run a few days and watch whether the re-imports, History swings, and phantom plays stop.
  • The watched-folder test you mentioned, disabling just the \Artists folder, is still worth doing if the churn continues after the sleep setting is off. It'll confirm whether that one location is uniquely affected.
If you're able to knock out the sleep setting first, that's the cleanest experiment. And if a phantom play still sneaks through afterward, grab a set of manual Roon Server logs within an hour or two of noticing it and upload them via the [url=https://workdrive.zohoexternal.com/collection/nocvrfc5b2ddab55140af8640f1d7ce13291e/external]File Uploader[/url] (directions [url=https://kb.roonlabs.com/Logs]here[/url]), with the short retention we discussed, that quick turnaround is the only way the moment will still be in the logs.

Fingers crossed the spin-down setting is the whole story. Let us know how it goes! :+1:

Hi @benjamin ,

I disabled disk sleep. Let’s see what happens.

(Yet, in the 8 years or so since I migrated form Sooloos to Roon, and the music files from Twinstores to a NAS, the sleepsetting gave no problems. The phantom play, churn, history swings etc. date from a few months back. It’s the strangest thing.)