Sorry should’ve flushed my inner monologue a bit better. I was considering 2 possibilities in my head.
PRESENT - In addition to Macs, I also have NUC with windows for Roon/Spotify and HTPC use and that defaults to 48khz, which is where I’ve kept it.
FUTURE - If Spotify does end up eventually releasing full “high-res” catalogue like Amazon, Tidal, or Qobuz with 24/48 and 24/96, I hope they introduce a feature on desktop to take care of automatic sample rate switching. I tried to bring this up many times with Amazon (as did others) and it still hasn’t been fixed. Last I checked, Apple Music also doesn’t have this on Mac OS (much less Windows). I know that 3rd party solutions do exist though (LosslessSwitcher).
Both Amazon Music and Apple Music don’t do automatic sample rate switching for either Mac OS or Windows. Spotify (44.1 exclusively so far) on Windows doesn’t switch either as far as I know - which wasn’t in an issue until now since it was lossy, so it didn’t even matter at that point.
Not sure about Qobuz’s native app, haven’t tried it. Tidal can switch when configured correctly
That’s correct – Amazon/Apple/Spotify do not auto switch on Windows, and the reason is that their Windows apps don’t support the WASAPI interface which allows for bit-perfect and exclusive mode audio stream. People on the Spotify Community Forum had requested Spotify to implement WASAPI before, and it’s come up again after the launch of Lossless. Qobuz and Tidal both support WASAPI on Windows.
In the music released in last 5-10 years, across all genres, I’ve seen a lot of native 24 bit 48 and 96 releases. How is Spotify handling those with the regular lossless tier? So native 16 and 24 44.1khz will be delivered as bit perfect (aside from the app and automatic rate switching mentioned above). Is the 24/48 and 24/96 content being downsampled by Spotify for 44.1 delivery?
I’m not understanding the logic at all, especially after all these years. Why not just get this right from the start for the current Premium users. Is there a Super Premium tier coming to address this?
So depending on the Spotify tier you have and the OS, you can potentially still have 3 messy situations.
Lossy - not bit perfect by default.
Premium (regular lossless) - but if the actual mastering file is 24 bit 48/96, Spotify will first resample it to 44.1 on their end, which on a Windows app will once again be resampled to 48 khz.
Super Premium tier (future) - they finally at least deliver 24/48 and 24/98, but without automatic sample rate switching, its still not perfect on either Windows or Mac.
I’m sticking with Tidal for the pricing and catalogue depth over Qobuz, although I know Tidal still has a lot of MQA tracks that haven’t been replaced with their original lossless counterpart. Still, for the most part I can get guaranteed bit perfect delivery through Roon or their own apps via Exclusive Mode.
I hope this aspect gets addressed by these other streaming services. Less podcasts, more fidelity.
I am away from home on vacation for a few weeks and I’ve turned off my HIFI system, so I cannot check if my Linn Klimax DSM/3 network streamer supports lossless Spotify or not, does anyone here know?
I use that Windows machine for occasional music, but primarily for HTPC and video playback with different streaming or local playback apps. 48 kHz makes more sense in general with that in mind.
IMO all streaming services apps should be implemented like Tidal does it (and presumably Qobuz): Have exclusive mode off by default so that way majority of the people can enjoy their music and other content simultaneously. However, offer the option for exclusive mode for proper automatic sample rate switching. For customers it should be as simple as clicking one box once. After that, perfect bit perfect playback with no resampling in the OS.
There’s a few words by Spotify Engineering Manager John on the topic, in a recent Reddit AMA:
So we’ve actually got this amazing audio lab in Stockholm, looked after by a true audio GURU (hej Andreas!). We’ve done tons of testing, and listened to all sorts of qualities under the very best conditions.
It is true that supporting full High-Resolution audio would offer greater objective precision. However, this also introduces entirely different requirements, not only in terms of data volume and bandwidth but also in the hardware used, so there’s lots of complexity across a user base of hundreds of millions.
We believe 24-bit/44.1 kHZ FLAC lossless sound is the perfect experience for fans who want the highest quality for streaming music on Spotify and the most perceptive listeners. The difference between audio quality settings can be very subtle and hard to detect for most people. Even under the very best lab conditions, people can’t tell the difference once you get over a certain quality. You don’t need higher than what we are offering. Unless you are a bat or an owl, or a Greater Wax Moth or something.
That does not cover the automatic sample rate switching discussion (I guess that’s rather niche from their POV), but interesting nonetheless.
Well, then it wouldn’t be Roon anymore. Roon requires a copy of the database of the streaming service provider to be able to perform the integration, metadata services, etc., that make it Roon. And to use MUSE DSP, the stream has to pass through the Roon Server so that the server can apply the DSP, meaning that this would rule out Spotify Connect, too. (With Connect, the stream is downloaded and played by the endpoint)
Plus, if using Spotify Connect as an endpoint, they would still have to display the content within Roon somehow. If they did that just with the Spotify API (which would be a very basic non-Roon experience), they may require Spotify’s agreement. (Though I don’t know for sure how Spotify handles this)
Right, so that’s what I meant that would be possible. (Though no idea if Spotify would we stricter with API access from commercial entities). Roon wouldn’t want that, in the same way as Spotify doesn’t want to give up control over their experience.
At this point, one could just as well use the Spotify app with Connect and would probably be better off.
Except:
Interesting. So it streams through the server and uses Roon output (RR, AirPlay, whatever) and not Spotify Connect, I suppose?
